Making the playing time "shorter"

What do you want to see in an advanced A&A game?
Share your thoughts... Contribute to the ultimate A&A game design.
User avatar
adlertag
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:28 pm
Location: norway

Post by adlertag » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:07 pm

nevermind
Last edited by adlertag on Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Drax Kramer
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:27 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Post by Drax Kramer » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:48 am

Imperious leader wrote: Defeating a Country
A country is not defeated until it loses all original territories that have a Industrial Complex (IC). As long as a country controls at least one territory with an IC, a country may spend IP and conduct its turn normally. Once defeated, a country can be revived if the country’s units recapture a territory with an IC. However, as long as a country has units, a country can perform Movement, Combat, Rail Movement, and Base Changes. A country is only permanently eliminated from the game when it has no ICs and no units of any type left on the board.
This is good stuff. I would only increase the number of starting ICs to reflect all powers that took part in the war. I'll use World in Flames (off all things :D ) to come up with ICs:

USSR (Leningrad, Moscow, Kiev, Caucasus, Ural, Vladivostok)

Germany (Berlin, Rome)

CW (London, Canada, India, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand)

Japan (Tokyo)

US (East Coast, West Coast, China)
Drax

User avatar
adlertag
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:28 pm
Location: norway

Post by adlertag » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:18 pm

nevermind
Last edited by adlertag on Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Krieghund
Posts: 2668
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:18 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Post by Krieghund » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:45 pm

These are interesting ideas. However, I have mixed feelings about the concept of "breakthroughs". It really depends on the map scale. If there are not significantly more territories then the current map, too much ground can be gained too quickly.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

User avatar
adlertag
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:28 pm
Location: norway

Post by adlertag » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:44 am

Set up
Last edited by adlertag on Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Imperious leader
Posts: 5207
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:04 am
Location: Moving up to phase line red...

Post by Imperious leader » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:24 pm

I have allready posted such a suggestion 4 months ago but ill do so again. Note that Soviet Union must place after Germany and in general the order of deployment is done to avoid a surprise for the allies...

1939 SCENARIO
General situation: The initial deployment of forces is in the following order: United States, Russia, Italy, Japan, China, England, France, and Germany. This scenario starts in the second half of 1939 and continues until turn 15 (late 1946) and if no victory is achieved by either side, then the game is declared a draw. France has a special fixed 12 strength fortification with its common border with Germany known as the Maginot line. England’s territories of Gibraltar and Malta each have a 6 level fixed fortification. German naval units can be located initially only in Atlantic or no further than east of India. Japanese naval units are to be deployed in sea zones adjacent to and IC or in a controlled Island chain. All land deployments are to be made as the controlling player chooses within the original boundaries of his nation and/or his colonial possessions. An exception to this rule is for the Soviet player who cannot move his Siberian army (4 Guards Mechanized Infantry and 2 Artillery) to west of the Urals until Germany invades the Soviet Union. Secondly, the Soviet navy has to be divided into fourths between the White Sea, Baltic Sea, Black sea, and the Far East. Naval units in White Sea or Far East cannot move more than 2 ocean spaces away from those territories, while the Baltic and Black Sea fleet can never leave until Russia controls all adjoining territories (e.g. Denmark/Norway or the Turkish straights). When the axis players declare war on a minor neutral nation, those forces are then set up and controlled by an allied power. When Russia attacks a neutral, those forces are controlled by the nearest axis player. The Allied fleet deployments must be observed and in the case of the United States, her pacific fleet has a restricted deployment.



1942 SCENARIO GENERAL SITUATION:
The initial deployment order is as follows: United States, Italy, China, Japan, England, Germany and Russia. This scenario begins on turn 6 and all major nations are at war with the Axis powers. France has been conquered by Germany and her territorial possessions are to be determined for Vichy status (except territories in France which are German controlled and Vichy France itself). Take ½ of the 1939 French force pool (rounding down) and roll once for each French territory, land unit, and warship now roll to determine their status. The game turns continue until turn 15 (late 1946) and If no victory is achieved by either side, then the game is declared a draw. The Maginot line is removed and cannot be brought back. However, The Siegfried Line (limit 9 fortifications) does exist (located on the German-Franco/Belgium border). England’s territories of Gibraltar and Malta each have a 6 level fixed fortification. German naval units can be located initially only in Atlantic or no further than east of India. Japanese naval units are to be deployed in sea zones adjacent to and IC or in a controlled Island chain. Japan also has a special attack bonus as follows: Any attack on naval units by any air units has a -5 die attack modifier for each defending ship or plane for the first round of combat, -4 on the second round, and -3 on the third round. All subsequent attacks in this manner are handled normally. This special attack only occurs for Japan during turn six. Placement of land/air units by all nations are to be done freely as in the 1939 scenario, with the exception that Russia can deploy her Siberian army within any part of her borders and Russian naval units are still divided into Arctic, Baltic, Black sea, and Far East squadrons. The Allied fleet deployments must be observed and in the case of the United States, her pacific fleet has a restricted deployment.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

nlentz88
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:06 pm

Post by nlentz88 » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:37 pm

Larry, if you're creating an Advanced A&A game that is going to cost significantly more than A&AR, then I don't think the game should be shortened much. Personally, one of my favorite aspects of the game is that it <i><b>does</b></i> take a long time. In my opinion, the length of the game makes it a better bang for the buck. I would not pay $100+ for a game that only lasts three or four hours. Furthermore, I agree with others in this thread who have said that shortening the game at the expense of its completeness, complexity, and accuracy would not be acceptable.

There are many elements of A&A that could be improved in Advanced, but I think the issue of time is of minor importance compared to most of them. Concentate on making more complex and balanced rules, developing new options for global strategies, and delivering a fine looking product. Don't waste your resources trying to trim the game's length.

Just my $0.02.

CanucKev
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:10 am
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Post by CanucKev » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 pm

I find that other than waiting for your next turn to come up (which could be remedied by having an axis turn followed by an allied turn), the length of the game depends on victory conditions.

The idea of having to find the leader, or of having to capture all industrial complexes, is really neat, but adds length to the game. The harder the victory conditions, the longer the game ... and since capturing capitals *is* a fairly substantial victory, I think anything beyond that would add unnecessary length ... but if you want to keep going after the capitals have fallen, that's a good way to get at it!

I think next time I play with my buddies (who complain about length, and this is the 2nd edition game), we should declare victory after one capital falls, and after a couple of liberation attempts fail. Frankly, that usually means the game's pretty much over, anyway.

One limitation I came up with for the axis turn/allied turn is that only one nation could attack a territory per turn - so that units from 3 different countries wouldn't be beating up on one country. Perhaps non-combat mvmt into that zone should be limited, too, to the country that captured the territory.

Also (at least with respect to the 2nd edition), Russia would need some sort of support before Germany went ... but the Axis would have to go before the Allies.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests