12 sided die versus the traditional 6 sided die

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AxisNDallas
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12 sided die versus the traditional 6 sided die

Post by AxisNDallas » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:52 pm

Larry,

I for one would like to see your next Advanced A&A game switch from the traditional 6 sided dice to something else.

In my game which I’ve entitled “Domination – the Risk Style A&A Game”, I use a 12 sided die to resolve all combat and technology development. My reasoning for switching is quite simple. My game consists of 22 different playing units (9 land, 6 air, & 7 naval) and I wanted to give each piece more “individually” and “personality”. Using a 6 sided die, I just couldn’t create a set of rules that could accomplished the aforementioned … especially when it came to technology development; which I will share with you at a later time.

To me, being able to differentiate the attack and defense factors of a “Standard Infantry” unit, a “Special Forces” unit, a “Marine” unit, and a “Mechanized Infantry” unit on a 6 sided die just does NOT work. In my game, if you shell out 24 IPC’s for a Battleship, I want this piece to have distinction and shine over a 15 IPC Cruiser. If I used a 6 sided die, where a Battleship would attack and defend on a 4 versus a Cruiser that attacks and defends on a 3, I do not see much separation between the units. BUT when I switch to a 12 sided die and my 24 IPC Battleship's attacks and defends on a 8 and my 15 IPC Cruiser attacks and defends on a 6, and my 12 IPC Light Cruiser's on a 5, and my 8 IPC Destroyer's on a 4 … well there is enough separation between the units that inherently instills a since of “value” for the money spend on my navy.

If you need more examples…
1. Zeno Games (under Frank Zeno) switched to an 8 sided die for some of his games such as World at War & Europe at War.
2. Bells of War used a 12 sided die
3. The War Game uses a 12 sided die

The common denominator of the above games and why I suspect these companies made the switch to a larger die is because they all offered a a large “portfolio” of units that can be purchased.

I would love to read what my other fellow A&A colleagues have to say on this topic.

Aaron Ingle
a/k/a AxisNDallas
ingle1@airmail.net

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Larry
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Post by Larry » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:33 am

Read to this point...

I like 10sided die (at this moment - anyway) On another issue. I don't want to add a lot of additional unit types. Perhaps only one land, one sea and one air unit at most. Presently I'm thinking -Mech Infantry, Cruser, Transport plane. Just these 3 units may not sound all that exciting but believe me this will translate into 4 or 5 pages themselves.

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elbowmaster
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Post by elbowmaster » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:40 pm

could you let us know why youve chosen these??? there must be some vision your seeing in this new game...there is certainly a ton of visions from other folks...perhaps all of us can get the 20/20 and really be able to help / comment / rather than dream about something you may or may not be interested in...

elbow

WanderingHead
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d10 vs d12

Post by WanderingHead » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:36 am

It seems kooky to bring it up, but I think a d12 is aesthetically more appealing than d10. I think the extra resolution would be better as well.

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thoes426
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Post by thoes426 » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:03 pm

I'll have to agree with Aaron too!
D12 leaves room for more options in varied levels of attack and defense between the units.

Thoes426 :twisted:
Strength lies not in defense but in attack.
Adolf Hitler

Orillian
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Post by Orillian » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:04 am

Now if Larry only wants to make those differenced between one and ten then leave it be.

After all he only has 12 units to play with, and you don't NEED d12's to represent your attack and defence options! there are a LOT of number combinations on a single d10 , and who says the main features of each unit need be represented by the attack and defencive value. Maybe it will be each items special abilities that will define it in-game. Besides who need 3 tanks one that attacks at a 2 and defends at a three / one that attacks at a 3 and defends at a 3 and one that attacks at a 2 and defends at a 12? :P

there are TWO theatres in this game...land and sea. why have one scale that ends up having Battleships up in the 9-10 range and inf at a 1-3 range when you can reduce both to reasonable easy to remember scales one for naval and one for land that both fit nicely inside a smaller die scale. Thus land units on their turf look strong and powerful, and sea units do as well and I don't have to try remembering that my battleships attack is divisable by 4. JUST Because you CAN make something complicated, doesn't me you have to. And JUST because Advanced is in front of A&A does not mean Larry have to turn it into ASL. I quit playing ASL because people get bogged down in details.

Each can have equal representation on a d10 die that will scale to there respective theatres.. you could have a sub at a 2/2 and a tank at 3/2 and only the sub can destroy a battleship. the scale is a bit different. Currently the ONLY units that cross that boundry on a regular basis are planes, and to be honest planes SHOULD have a different role in naval battles then they already do! Maybe plains add bonuses to an existing fleet, and can be casualties in the fight but do not actual have their own roll. not sure, I'll leave that up to larry, or scale them differently depending on the theatre they are in!

BTW: bombers shouldn't be able to attack ships either. THey are to slow and big to get close enough without getting shot out of the sky. For anyone that is into history? IS there any reference to bombers being used in naval combat?

Richard

Orillian
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Post by Orillian » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:23 am

didn't say to use different dice for different units. I said that if he wants to use a 10 sided die for A_A&A then it would be more then enough!

People talk about d12's being better, but in reality if Larry wants to go with 12 units total across the entire gameboard then a d12 is overkill, way to many options for a 12 unit game. Now some people have been talking about having 20+ units in their games, then for sure do d12's, or even d20's.

Now I could be wrong..

Richard

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elbowmaster
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Post by elbowmaster » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:48 pm

yes the d10 has thrown my thinking off as far as whats better, 10 / 12...???

will 3/3 tanks now be hit and defend on 5???

thinking more on this, but i can also see that the d10 has the base 10 advantage...

im still open, but would like to know more on the thoughts about the effect...

elbow

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