Map questionnaire

What do you want to see in an advanced A&A game?
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Flashman
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Map questionnaire

Post by Flashman » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:53 am

The Map: Basic Considerations

To kick things off, here is a brief questionnaire on the AAA map.

Which option do you favour on each of these map related question?
* My recommendations

1. Map Projection
a. Geographically correct, with a small Europe and Japan
b. Heavily distorted, with large Europe etc.
c. A compromise between a & b*

2. Map Colour
a. Countries colour-coded to 1939
b. Countries colour-coded to 1941/42 (game start date)
c. Plain green and/or brown territories with flags/markers to indicate control
d. As above with terrain types indicated on map*
e. “Eagle Games” style map with drawings of tanks, aircraft etc.

3. Terrain
a. Totally plain terrain
b. Plain terrain with some impassable desert areas
c. As above, but aircraft may fly over desert
d. Mountain ranges a la Aldertag map
e. More complex terrain, including rail networks*

4. Islands
a. Islands generally entirely within a sea zone*
b. Islands as nodal points between several sea zones

5. Sea Zones
a. Plain sea zones with no control or IPC values*
b. Important coastal zones having IPC values a la Aldertag
c. “Convoy” boxes as in AAEurope/Pacific

6. Map Edge
a. Drawn down middle of Pacific Ocean
b. Drawn down middle of North America*

7. Air and Naval Bases
a. No such special territories*
b. Set number of bases as in AAP
c. As above, with facility to build new bases

8. Victory Cities
a. No VCs, focus on capturing Capitals
b. Approx 12 VCs as in AAR
c. Approx 24 VCs, possibly including some neutrals*

9. Neutral Countries
a. Neutrals all off-limits
b. Neutrals may be invaded first by Axis only
c. May be invaded by both sides, paying IPC penalty
d. As above with neutral countries having IPC values
e. More active neutrals with own forces and diplomacy*

10. Economic Resources
a. None, i.e. economies incorporated into basic IPC values (e.g. Borneo = 4 IPCs)
b. Simple fuel rules a la Flashman (e.g. Borneo = 1 IPC, but has fuel resource)*
c. More complex war economies
* This will, in conjunction with VCs, “spread out” the action more

11. Industrial Complexes
a. Set starting I.C. locations, with no additional I.C.building
b. As above with “build anywhere with IPC value” additions (AAR rules)
c. Build I.C.s only in “Industrialised” territories, i.e. North America, Europe, Japan, possibly Manchuria and south-eastern Australia*

12. Map Size
a. Smallish, compact board with blow-up boxes and use of marshalling circles etc.
b. Medium sized board, perhaps with some blow-up boxes*
c. Giant sized board requiring correspondingly large table

13. Map Scale
a. Similar number of territories as AAR
b. Same but with wider oceans, i.e. more sea zones
c. Approx 25% more territories
d. Approx 50% more territories*
e. Approx 100% more territories (x2)
f. Approx 200% more territories (x3)
g. Approx 300% more territories (x4)

14. “Home” Territory effects
a. No difference, except for some national advantages if used
b. Combat advantage for “Home” power
c. May not use captured enemy Industrial complexes*
d. Reduced IPC income from captured enemy territory

15. Seasonal effects
a. No seasons
b. Limited movement during “winter” turn (may be limited to northern hemisphere)
c. Combat advantage for defender during “winter” turn
d. Only specific territories effected, e.g. Barents sea freezes over*

16. Colour Scheme
a. The AAR colours (with light Grey for Italy)
b. As above with Japan back in yellow, UK in tan
c. As above with Japan in Red, USSR in Brown, UK in tan
d. The Flashman scheme: Green(US)Tan(UK)Brown(USSR)Black(G)Grey(I)White(J)*
e. Other

You may be interested in the following feature on plastic colours from PSR:

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Fea ... lours.html


Obviously I disagree on the scheme chosen for WWII. In reply to my E-Mail PSR replied that people generally dislike black or white figures as it’s “difficult to see the detail in these colours”. Do you agree with this?

Personally (and I write as someone with partial colour blindness) I think, for A&A purposes, it’s far more important to distinguish nationality at a glance than it is to make out fine details on the figures. This is why I prefer the Allied “earthy” colours versus the “monochrome” Axis set. Japan in yellow/red/orange is too close to the Allied colours for my liking.

note: Elbow, repost this on the map thread if you feel it is appropriate. I just thought a separate thread might garner a statistical database of preferences to use as a reference.

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Larry
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Post by Larry » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:33 pm

Flashman – Here’s my answers and positions – at this time.
1.Map projection – B.
2.Map Color – Probably B
3.Terrain – Probably B and maybe E
4.Islands – A
5.sea Zones - C
6.Map Edge –B
7.Air and Naval Bases – no idea, probably B
8.Victory Cities – Probably somewhere between B & C.
9.Neutral Countries – A or B, not sure at this time.
10.Economic Resources – Most likely A but have often considered B.
11.Industrial complexes – Most likely B
12.Map Size – not my choice.
13.Map Scale – Somewhere between A,B, and C.
14.“Home” Territory effects – A and B
15. Seasonal Effects – A
16. Color Scheme – not my choice
17. Oh… there is no 17.

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Imperious leader
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Post by Imperious leader » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:52 pm

1. Map Projection
c. A compromise between a & b*
I dont want the map to look anything like revised... The cartography has to be done w/o any artistic enhancements, but it should have a larger Europe and Mainland Asia, only not soo much that it looks like another planet. The map is large enough to accomplish this is we stick with the 50x30 figure. Blow up boxes are an abomination against mankind.. please no "blow up" boxes when you make those things your saying .."gee we are soo cheap that we cant make you a larger map to fit your pieces so we goofed and here is the easy solution that didnt cost us another artist to redraw a new map". :roll:

2. Map Colour
a. Countries colour-coded to 1939
d. As above with terrain types indicated on map*
I want ultra easy rules for some weather effects..after all the German defeat was largely effected by the snow. Plus we should have the effects of "jungle" warfare in asia. You can leave out the "eagle games" style of puting some picture of anything that can relate into every nook and cranny of open space... leave that trick for childrens games.. thank you. :twisted:


3. Terrain
b. Plain terrain with some impassable desert areas
c. As above, but aircraft may fly over desert
d. Mountain ranges a la Aldertag map
e. More complex terrain, including rail networks*
I want terrain even if we have no terrain rules, so latter we can introduce house rules for this. Rail lines ..think avalon hills "russian campaign" or "stalingrad" I want to see realistic terrain and not some simplistic treatment which says " Dont go into spain or turkey, because this is not advanced axis and allies, but rather a childs game where we have to ignore the complications of "dealing" with neutrals, so like in revised when it comes to neutrals, "we see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" in fact we are saying basically that "Is their a global war..what war.. you sure?" I dont think we can just brush under the rug all of history.. especially if we are making a game about it.




4. Islands
b. Islands as nodal points between several sea zones (interesting idea)
The idea is very important ports (islands) should have strategic significance. So if they are in the middle of more than one territory, then they can move farther as larry has stated in his ideas about ports.

5. Sea Zones
c. “Convoy” boxes as in AAEurope/Pacific

6. Map Edge
b. Drawn down middle of North America*

7. Air and Naval Bases
b. Set number of bases as in AAP (not sure about air bases)
Only small islands that qualify could serve as an air base, which brings the "air bases" more value


8. Victory Cities
c. Approx 24 VCs, possibly including some neutrals* (basically as per larrys ideas on VC)
I think we need more cities but probably only a few, including neutrals.. their has to be a reason to invade and attack the spainish army. Think avalon hills third reich on this and note the victory cities they have. Thats perfect IMO

9. Neutral Countries
d. As above with neutral countries having IPC values
e. More active neutrals with own forces and diplomacy*
we need white pieces for neutrals and diplomatic rules for minor axis allies.. please...

10. Economic Resources
a. None, i.e. economies incorporated into basic IPC values (e.g. Borneo = 4 IPCs)
b. Simple fuel rules a la Flashman (e.g. Borneo = 1 IPC, but has fuel resource)* ( yes, we need oil to be represented like it was in aa Europe, except a bit more involved.
c. More complex war economies
* This will, in conjunction with VCs, “spread out” the action more
WE need something akin to aa europe which treated the "oil resource" something of a similiar nature should be represented.. Take the dutch east indies for example. Japan should gain some additional value for "war making " potential. this may be in the form of strategic reserves that would entitle a player to perform additional combat actions (more than one round of combat) while the "cost" of this comes from a nations "reserves" of oil resources. The same can go for the other nations, Hitler attacked in 1942 for the purpose of taking caucasus oil and not trying to finish off russia by destroying her armed forces. Rather the influence of national resources was involved. Also a player should be able to bomb your "resources" like a SBR. Also , remember Japan started the war because they didnt have enough "oil" to continue fighting so they attacked hawaii. Why are we ignoring this influence on war? Is it too difficult to deal with?

11. Industrial Complexes
c. Build I.C.s only in “Industrialised” territories, i.e. North America, Europe, Japan, possibly Manchuria and south-eastern Australia*
It takes many years to rebuild and get industry movingn again, You cant just build a aircraft factory in Egypt in 6 months... Only the Soviet player should be able to move his Industral factories. WE need a piece for factories. I dont like printing it on the map, because it cant be changed latter for different scenarios, where no factory existed.

12. Map Size
c. Giant sized board requiring correspondingly large table 50x30 will be perfect!

13. Map Scale
c. 25% more land and sea territories

14. “Home” Territory effects
a. No difference, except for some national advantages if used
b. Combat advantage for “Home” power
c. May not use captured enemy Industrial complexes* (to build)
d. Reduced IPC income from captured enemy territory
If the Soviet player takes war torn Berlin... how are we gonna say in 6 months the Soviet player can build tanks and fighters? the same would be in any case.. any territory originally held and captured by another should get less value in some respect than it was bringing to the "owner" think France before june 1940 and the period of 1940-june 1944.. did France turn out the same economic level as before? NO is the answer.

15. Seasonal effects
b. Limited movement during “winter” turn (may be limited to northern hemisphere)
c. Combat advantage for defender during “winter” turn
Very simple ideas to have this included, a +2on defense for units in eastern europe... its not rocket science!


16. Colour Scheme
a. The AAR colours (with light Grey for Italy)
b. As above with Japan back in yellow, UK in tan
e. Other ( opacity of the maps colors is subdued --- "light tint' so that the terrain elements can have a more pronounced look)
Just look at the uniforms of the nations and make the pieces the same, except Italy should be light grey, while Japan wore a bright kaiki, which looks something like a dull yellow. USA is drab olive#2 neutrals are white. China can use US pieces, while the Soviet player goes for a earth brown.
Last edited by Imperious leader on Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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elbowsanchez
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Post by elbowsanchez » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:55 pm

I find it very enlightening as to "what or what not" the designer has control of.

It must be hugely frustrating creating one thing, then have people who are not even related to the experience make "changes"

I am commenting specifically to what Larry doesnt have a choice on.

map size

color scheme

very interesting.

ES
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Flashman
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Post by Flashman » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:00 am

Imperious leader wrote:
13. Map Scale
d. Approx 50% more territories* 25% more land territories and 25% more sea zones good.
Mmmm, wouldn't that be just 25% more territories overall?

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Defiance
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Post by Defiance » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:31 am

My input for your questionaire:

1. Map Projection
b. Heavily distorted, with large Europe etc.

I think the europe and asian areas, where the "axis hemisphere" is located, should be blown up to get the proper size for more territories, and territories less used should be shrinked.
But I still think distorted map can be combined with the entire globe on the map, and a "natural feel" of the world as it is. As long as you have a big map, it is possible in my eyes!... Shouldn't I vote for c) now?


2. Map Colour
c. Plain green and/or brown territories with flags/markers to indicate control
d. As above with terrain types indicated on map
*

I choose d: I would like terrain like the civilization game map from eagle games (not exactly like this, but in the direction of it). I want country symbols and thick '39 border lines to identify control, not a colour anymore.


3. Terrain
e. More complex terrain, including rail networks*

Complex with rivers, forests, deserts, plains and 2 types of mountains (small border mountains like urals or carpathians between 2 territories, and total mountaineaus countries like Iran, Norway ), but this is a delicate proces: and largely is combined with the natural "feel" of the board: it has to breathe the atmosphere of WWII, while still having the terrain features visible... If we go for terrain to include it, it will be the most difficult feature for the map making process.

I have to see if railway can be done properly. I think it will clutter the map too much.


4. Islands
a. Islands generally entirely within a sea zone*
b. Islands as nodal points between several sea zones


Both: I think small island groups will have to be placed within one sea zone, while bigger islands (borneo, sumatra) will have to be nodal points.


5. Sea Zones
c. “Convoy” boxes as in AAEurope/Pacific


6. Map Edge
b. Drawn down middle of North America*


7. Air and Naval Bases
b. Set number of bases as in AAP

Airports only on small islands to indicate the possibility to use it as an airbase or not (plus advantage of no movement point from land to sea). Seaports only at important (large) harbours around the globe, which provide extra defense for ships and repair function.


8. Victory Cities
c. Approx 24 VCs* But no neutral VC's. I can also imagine that there will e more than 24 VC's, depending on map


9. Neutral Countries
e. More active neutrals with own forces and diplomacy*

I would like to see new political/diplomacy rules to indicate how all countries will join or leave the war on either axis or allied side, combined with victory conditions. Each turn, two dice must be rolled for all countries to determine their position in the war. The victory cities along with some other factors in the game will determine the chance of a country to join/leave resp. Example USA enters the war when certain conditions are realised in the game progress, or Turkey might enter war on axis side when Cairo or Baku are fallen, along with a lucky dice roll. But this is something not the map teams should discuss right now, but rule group 3.


10. Economic Resources
a. None, i.e. economies incorporated into basic IPC values (e.g. Borneo = 4 IPCs)

Although you guys known I incorporated oil in my maps, I have still doubt about if this will work properly. For now, basic IPC values, with extra IPC-value to territory with "fuel", will do fine for me.


11. Industrial Complexes
a. Set starting I.C. locations, with no additional I.C. building
b. As above with “build anywhere with IPC value” additions (AAR rules)


This, along with the incorporation of different types of IC's (small, medium and large IC's). Larger IC's only able to go to industrialized regions. Most important is that to build an IC has to take time (example small IC one turn, but large IC takes 3 turns!)


12. Map Size
c. Giant sized board requiring correspondingly large table

people will have to invest in a new table ;) Also in favor of blow-up boxes for small territories like Gibraltar.

I think it is better to post some actual size proposals in your questionaire Flashman! because what's medium in one's perception is large in another's perception


13. Map Scale
f. Approx 200% more territories (x3) EDITED THIS ONE

I choose f, especially more territories in the "axis hemisphere". Compared to Revised three times more territories in total, but concentrated in europe and Asia.


14. “Home” Territory effects
c. May not use captured enemy Industrial complexes*


15. Seasonal effects
a. No seasons

For now no seasons, but I am open to B or C if the rules remain very simple and easy to use.


16. Colour Scheme
a. The AAR colours (with light Grey for Italy)

I want the AAR colours, but adjustments to the Japanese and UK color are fine to me, but they must be easy to distinguis from eachother and other nations. but no black & white for me!
Last edited by Defiance on Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Krieghund
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Re: Map questionnaire

Post by Krieghund » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:09 am

1. Map Projection
a. Geographically correct, with a small Europe and Japan
b. Heavily distorted, with large Europe etc.
c. A compromise between a & b

2. Map Colour
a. Countries colour-coded to 1939
b. Countries colour-coded to 1941/42 (game start date)
c. Plain green and/or brown territories with flags/markers to indicate control
d. As above with terrain types indicated on map
e. “Eagle Games” style map with drawings of tanks, aircraft etc.

3. Terrain
a. Totally plain terrain
b. Plain terrain with some impassable desert areas
c. As above, but aircraft may fly over desert
d. Mountain ranges a la Aldertag map
e. More complex terrain, including rail networks

Has any consideration been given to my earlier ideas on impassable terrain?
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB2/ ... 01&start=0

4. Islands
a. Islands generally entirely within a sea zone
b. Islands as nodal points between several sea zones

5. Sea Zones
a. Plain sea zones with no control or IPC values
b. Important coastal zones having IPC values a la Aldertag
c. “Convoy” boxes as in AAEurope/Pacific

Actually, Convoy Zones as in Pacific.

6. Map Edge
a. Drawn down middle of Pacific Ocean
b. Drawn down middle of North America

7. Air and Naval Bases
a. No such special territories
b. Set number of bases as in AAP
c. As above, with facility to build new bases

I think that rather than extending range as in Pacific, bases should provide support facilities. For example, you need an air base on an island to land planes there. You need a naval base to repair damaged battleships, etc. Perhaps naval bases could provide some kind of protection for fleets.

8. Victory Cities
a. No VCs, focus on capturing Capitals
b. Approx 12 VCs as in AAR
c. Approx 24 VCs, possibly including some neutrals

9. Neutral Countries
a. Neutrals all off-limits
b. Neutrals may be invaded first by Axis only
c. May be invaded by both sides, paying IPC penalty
d. As above with neutral countries having IPC values
e. More active neutrals with own forces and diplomacy

10. Economic Resources
a. None, i.e. economies incorporated into basic IPC values (e.g. Borneo = 4 IPCs)
b. Simple fuel rules a la Flashman (e.g. Borneo = 1 IPC, but has fuel resource)
c. More complex war economies

11. Industrial Complexes
a. Set starting I.C. locations, with no additional I.C.building
b. As above with “build anywhere with IPC value” additions (AAR rules)
c. Build I.C.s only in “Industrialised” territories, i.e. North America, Europe, Japan, possibly Manchuria and south-eastern Australia

12. Map Size
a. Smallish, compact board with blow-up boxes and use of marshalling circles etc.
b. Medium sized board, perhaps with some blow-up boxes
c. Giant sized board requiring correspondingly large table

13. Map Scale
a. Similar number of territories as AAR
b. Same but with wider oceans, i.e. more sea zones
c. Approx 25% more territories
d. Approx 50% more territories
e. Approx 100% more territories (x2)
f. Approx 200% more territories (x3)
g. Approx 300% more territories (x4)

14. “Home” Territory effects
a. No difference, except for some national advantages if used
b. Combat advantage for “Home” power
c. May not use captured enemy Industrial complexes
d. Reduced IPC income from captured enemy territory

15. Seasonal effects
a. No seasons
b. Limited movement during “winter” turn (may be limited to northern hemisphere)
c. Combat advantage for defender during “winter” turn
d. Only specific territories effected, e.g. Barents sea freezes over

16. Colour Scheme
a. The AAR colours (with light Grey for Italy)
b. As above with Japan back in yellow, UK in tan
c. As above with Japan in Red, USSR in Brown, UK in tan
d. The Flashman scheme: Green(US)Tan(UK)Brown(USSR)Black(G)Grey(I)White(J)
e. Other


Obviously I disagree on the scheme chosen for WWII. In reply to my E-Mail PSR replied that people generally dislike black or white figures as it’s “difficult to see the detail in these colours”. Do you agree with this?
Not for myself.
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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:52 am

1. Map Projection
a. Geographically correct, with a small Europe and Japan
b. Heavily distorted, with large Europe etc.
c. A compromise between a & b*

2. Map Colour
a. Countries colour-coded to 1939
b. Countries colour-coded to 1941/42 (game start date)
c. Plain green and/or brown territories with flags/markers to indicate control
d. As above with terrain types indicated on map* (I would also add an outline around home territories that would remain constant for any scenario you play
e. “Eagle Games” style map with drawings of tanks, aircraft etc.

3. Terrain
a. Totally plain terrain
b. Plain terrain with some impassable desert areas
c. As above, but aircraft may fly over desert
d. Mountain ranges a la Aldertag map
e. More complex terrain, including rail networks*

4. Islands
a. Islands generally entirely within a sea zone*
b. Islands as nodal points between several sea zones

5. Sea Zones
a. Plain sea zones with no control or IPC values*
b. Important coastal zones having IPC values a la Aldertag
c. “Convoy” boxes as in AAEurope/Pacific

6. Map Edge
a. Drawn down middle of Pacific Ocean
b. Drawn down middle of North America*

7. Air and Naval Bases
a. No such special territories*
b. Set number of bases as in AAP
c. As above, with facility to build new bases

8. Victory Cities
a. No VCs, focus on capturing Capitals
b. Approx 12 VCs as in AAR
c. Approx 24 VCs, possibly including some neutrals* (we need more VC's IMO)

9. Neutral Countries
a. Neutrals all off-limits
b. Neutrals may be invaded first by Axis only
c. May be invaded by both sides, paying IPC penalty
d. As above with neutral countries having IPC values
e. More active neutrals with own forces and diplomacy* (some neutrals will produce for whoever conquers them, like Hungary, making a new kind of Neutral, the Satellite States)

10. Economic Resources
a. None, i.e. economies incorporated into basic IPC values (e.g. Borneo = 4 IPCs)
b. Simple fuel rules a la Flashman (e.g. Borneo = 1 IPC, but has fuel resource)*
c. More complex war economies (more to come later...)[/b]
* This will, in conjunction with VCs, “spread out” the action more

11. Industrial Complexes
a. Set starting I.C. locations, with no additional I.C.building
b. As above with “build anywhere with IPC value” additions (AAR rules)
c. Build I.C.s only in “Industrialised” territories, i.e. North America, Europe, Japan, possibly Manchuria and south-eastern Australia* )more to come from Team 3 concerning this)[/b]

12. Map Size
a. Smallish, compact board with blow-up boxes and use of marshalling circles etc.
b. Medium sized board, perhaps with some blow-up boxes*
c. Giant sized board requiring correspondingly large table

13. Map Scale
a. Similar number of territories as AAR
b. Same but with wider oceans, i.e. more sea zones
c. Approx 25% more territories
d. Approx 50% more territories*
e. Approx 100% more territories (x2)
f. Approx 200% more territories (x3)
g. Approx 300% more territories (x4)

14. “Home” Territory effects
a. No difference, except for some national advantages if used
b. Combat advantage for “Home” power
c. May not use captured enemy Industrial complexes*
d. Reduced IPC income from captured enemy territory

15. Seasonal effects
a. No seasons
b. Limited movement during “winter” turn (may be limited to northern hemisphere)
c. Combat advantage for defender during “winter” turn
d. Only specific territories effected, e.g. Barents sea freezes over*

16. Colour Scheme
a. The AAR colours (with light Grey for Italy)
b. As above with Japan back in yellow, UK in tan
c. As above with Japan in Red, USSR in Brown, UK in tan
d. The Flashman scheme: Green(US)Tan(UK)Brown(USSR)Black(G)Grey(I)White(J)*
e. Other[/b]
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