Captured Technology

Have you been playing with some house rules over the years - or even recently invented, that you'd like to share?
IchBinDerKaiser
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Captured Technology

Post by IchBinDerKaiser » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:06 pm

Does anyone have any kind of house rule regarding capturing technology from an opposing player. For example, let's say that the Soviets capture Berlin. The Germans have several technologies that the Soviets don't have. In the real life all the allies were trying to pick up technology from the Axis Powers after they were defeated and tried to reverse engineer them to get it them selves.

So does anyone have a house rule pertaining to this.

My idea at the moment is that when an enemy capital is taken, you get to make a free tech roll for each tech that the enemy has that you don't. How does that sound?
The only difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense.- Tom Clancey.

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Re: Captured Technology

Post by Imperious leader » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:21 am

When you capture a factory it'd destroyed as well as anything else.

You don't get to "recycle" factories that where destroyed from half of year of war and next month they churn out your battleships, fighters and tanks.

This makes no sence. If you capture the space everything is destroyed including AA guns.

If the original owner retakes it, he must rebuild a new factory.

This should replace that rule where you forfeit the IPC to the controlling player. That made no sence either.

Also, if your partner gets a tech, you can get it by rolling a 5-6, rather than a 6. Same rules apply.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

dirk2243
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Re: Captured Technology

Post by dirk2243 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:58 am

IchBinDerKaiser wrote:Does anyone have any kind of house rule regarding capturing technology from an opposing player. For example, let's say that the Soviets capture Berlin. The Germans have several technologies that the Soviets don't have. In the real life all the allies were trying to pick up technology from the Axis Powers after they were defeated and tried to reverse engineer them to get it them selves.

So does anyone have a house rule pertaining to this.

My idea at the moment is that when an enemy capital is taken, you get to make a free tech roll for each tech that the enemy has that you don't. How does that sound?
It does make a little bit of sense when taking over a country. Secrets would be spilled. We learned a great deal about the type XXI subs that Germany had, The V weapons and other things.

I agree w/ IL a bit though and not sure you'd get everything or a chance at everything. I'd say.....it could help to lower your cost at getting dice towards a certain thing the enemy you just over ran had.

Example: lets say you over run Germany and they had Super subs and Rockets. I would say approach this as.....The cost of your dice you buy towards that Tech would cost less perhaps? Instead of 5 IPC, you could say it cost 3 IPC cause of the things you found in that country. Like...some of the key documents were destroyed, but some you found saving you time and effort on research?

dirk2243
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Re: Captured Technology

Post by dirk2243 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:09 pm

Actually it does make a bit of sence to capture a degree of tech from a country. We "the allies" learned a lot from what we found that wasn't destroyed.

The type XX U-boats (walter boats)
The German V weapons
etc, etc, etc....

I could see after taking a captial you get to roll w/ cheaper costing dice?

Example: you over run Germany. And Germany had Super Subs and Rockets. You could roll dice for these two techs at a reduced cost instead of the normal 5 IPCs. You could say some of the documentation was destroyed, but not all of it and thus helping your countries scientist by pointing them in the right direction.

Caractacus
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Re: Captured Technology

Post by Caractacus » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:35 am

Imperious leader wrote:When you capture a factory it'd destroyed as well as anything else. This makes no sence.

If you capture the space everything is destroyed including AA guns.

If the original owner retakes it, he must rebuild a new factory.
True, but this would make more sence [sic] if he had said 'factory' and not 'capital'.
Imperious leader wrote:Also, if your partner gets a tech, you can get it by rolling a 5-6, rather than a 6. Same rules apply.
Well, capturing the enemy capital is likely to deliver a lot of interesting material, but whatever its advantages I have never understood why it remains so hard to develop a tech when your ally is showing you the damn plans. After that point, it should be only a matter of time rather than odds.
dirk2243 wrote:Actually it does make a bit of sence to capture a degree of tech from a country.
Aargh - now you've got him doing it, too!

On topic though, tech certainly could use a revision in the game, so I am glad to see this thread as I think we'll have to develop our own rules for play with our own groups of friends - it seems unlikely that anything is going to change in the main game.

There are all sorts of issues pertaining to it that need looking at: what forms it takes (i.e. what is included or not), how one develops it, and also mechanisms for sharing.

The first is complex as the game lumps together many different things under the title 'tech' that really aren't (as you often point out IL). Personally, I wanted to rename things 'Military Advances' so that other elements could be included (though this certainly still doesn't include War Bonds, no... :wink: ) as we could then give nations prepared for war tactically and strategically an advantage of some sort that didn't require more IPCs, more units or a 'free' move.

The second one is a source of massive annoyance for me - though I am aware that others don't agree. I HATE the fact that I can buy many rolls with a certain tech in mind and a) not necessarily get it even after many turns and many rolls, b) not even be ANY NEARER AT ALL after all those turns, and c) then get a random tech that is possibly worse than useless for my power. :evil:

Finally, I think there should be a better system for getting help from allies that already have the tech, some form of advantage from repeated research attempts, and possibly a bonus from capturing major enemy points of production or capitals, etc.

Another element that I dislike in the current system is that with techs being expensive and unpredictable in both time and nature the actual advantage that the tech grants has to be pretty big to balance the equation out. I find that to be too much 'swing' from one side to the other: either you luck out with a good tech quite early on with only a few rolls, or you end up with many rolls and no tech at all (or a pointless one for you) due to bad luck. Naturally, these things average out over time, but that requires many games - it can unbalance or even ruin a given single, otherwise fun, game.

What we have done in our group is broken our techs (which are different fromt he standard set) in our game into a theoretical and a practical element. One has to develop the theoretical element first and then the practical element. We have made both stages easier to manage and predict (though not certain), but it therefore requires at east TWO turns. This extra time is considered to be part of the 'cost' of the tech.

The result is that: you can work towards a particular tech, you have a better chance of success, it doesn't cost as much in IPCs but requires a little more time, and it also prevents a nation from almost out of the blue developing sudden enormous advantages...

However, I know that many people actually LIKE the uncertainty and power swings that tech brings...but that's why we have house rules, right?

IL, do you have house rules for tech? How do you handle these issues of cost, choice and effectiveness in your games, and how do you handle advantages of one's allies' help, etc? Or do you prefer to play by official rules?
Caractacus.

WILD BILL
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Re: Captured Technology

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:01 pm

Great post Caractacus, I would be interested in seeing your development steps for tech.



IL, do you have house rules for tech?

Now that was funny, I don't think he has ever played by anyone's rules but his own. :lol:

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Re: Captured Technology

Post by Imperious leader » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:15 pm

These rules were created during AA50 and techs are organized into categories that are accessible in a tier system.

These are optional rules that apply to Technology:
Spies: These cost 10 IPC each and can be assigned in secret to any specific enemy player’s technology category (land, sea or air). If that player decides to develop a technology in this category and it succeeds, the spy may be revealed and the spy gets to roll obtaining technology on a roll of 4-6. Note: the Soviet player is the only player that can send spies to his own allies and they cost 5 IPC.

Counter Spy: Each player may buy a super spy at 10 IPC which can be used to eliminate the enemy spy but this is also assigned to a specific technology category (land, sea or air) to any technologies that can be developed. Note: He cannot obtain research secrets, but can only be sent to kill regular spies. The rate of exchange in this manner is 1:1.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

Caractacus
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Re: Captured Technology

Post by Caractacus » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:15 pm

WILD BILL wrote:Great post Caractacus, I would be interested in seeing your development steps for tech.
I'll try to remember to PM you them at some point when I have a bit of time to format what you need. I should warn you though that our rule set is heavily modded, so the tech rules won't slot neatly into a vanilla game as a single house rule...
Imperious leader wrote:These rules were created during AA50 and techs are organized into categories that are accessible in a tier system.

These are optional rules that apply to Technology:
Spies: These cost 10 IPC each and can be assigned in secret to any specific enemy player’s technology category (land, sea or air). If that player decides to develop a technology in this category and it succeeds, the spy may be revealed and the spy gets to roll obtaining technology on a roll of 4-6. Note: the Soviet player is the only player that can send spies to his own allies and they cost 5 IPC.

Counter Spy: Each player may buy a super spy at 10 IPC which can be used to eliminate the enemy spy but this is also assigned to a specific technology category (land, sea or air) to any technologies that can be developed. Note: He cannot obtain research secrets, but can only be sent to kill regular spies. The rate of exchange in this manner is 1:1.
Now those are interesting! I have never used spies for anything except our 'blind' games with hidden maps and visibility limited to only across a border. Using them as 'industrial spies', as it were, is a new usage for me.

If the spies can be so efficient - (50% chance of the tech), how come capturing an enemy capital with all the possibilities for turn-coats, poorly-destroyed prototypes, tortured/coerced scientists and lost/forgotten/badly-disposed-of papers doesn't at last give a 1-in-6 chance? Or a bonus of +1 to your next roll for a tech which that nation has but that the conqueror doesn't? Go on...you know you want to... :wink:
Caractacus.

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