Combined Arms

Thanks for your input todate. Here is a collection of my thinking at this point. Please feel free to participate in this on going discussion. Your contributions are appreciated. Tell your A&A friends about this so they have a chance to voice what they want in A-A&A. I'll update the the original posting as changes and new ideas are adopted or contemplated.
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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:11 am

aye, aye General... I'll do some push ups for you.... :)


but I think my idea would fix alot of problems with as little complications and to some degree historical... plus the defenders turn to attackers on their turn due too 3 cycle so you'll have your chance to do a combined arms...

GG
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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:24 am

Yeah, gimme 50, you twisted soldier.

HOW DO TANKS WORK

A&A Tanks attack on 6 or less D12.
If the tank succed in rolling 6 or less, then he can roll again in the same round of combat. (This means a tank may roll 2 dices, but only if the first roll succeeds).

Link to real world:
The first tank roll reflects the penetration attempt. If roll on 7 or more, the attack is halted. If roll on 6 or less, (=success, )the tank made a Breakethrough, and will continue to roll a bonus dice.

Playability. Many dice games have this rule, that a roll on 6 (D6) gives you a bonus roll. So people are used to it, no confusion.

"If the tanks succed, victory is our." Hanz Guderian.

www.panzerworld.net/blitzkrieg.html

SURPRICE FACTOR
Since surprice is the key element in Panzer-attacks, the Tanks must have a "First round bounus", like a roll on 8 or less is success, but only in the first round of combat.
(This is similar to LHTR's Stuka N.A. rule, where german fighters can roll 5 or less (D6) in first round only.)

COMBINED ARMS
Blitzkrieg stand on 3 corner stones:
Bombers, the flighing artillery support (indirect fire)
Tanks, penetrate enemy lines, and make a breakethrough. (direct fire)
Mech. Infantry, follow up and exploit the breakethrough. (Basic unit)

HOW WILL THIS WORK ON A BATTLEBOARD ?
For playability the combined attack by bombers, tanks and mech.inf must roll the same dice value.

We have a Kampfgruppen of 3 bombers,3 tanks and 3 mech.inf. in attack.
1.ROUND OF COMBAT
We roll 9 dices D12, every 8 or less is hit.
5 rolls succed, and we can roll 5 bonus rolls for 8 or less is hit.
Defender rolls, remove casualties.

2.ROUND OF COMBAT
After the casualties, we can only muster 2 bomb, 2 tanks and 2 mech.
We roll 6 dices D12 , every 6 or less is hit. (Becouse now the surprice is lost)
3 rolls succed, and we can roll 3 bonus rolls for 6 or less.
Defender rolls, remove casualties.

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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:06 pm

interesting calcs Herr Aldertag, but I think for one round of combat that is too mch for one battle... first you have to divide according to the combos which I nderstand.. then bonuses are rolled... then you have other units roll as well... it needs to be a set seperation of units into combos and one cycle of combo rolls...
"We're airborne. We’re supposed to be surrounded."

Dick Winters to 2nd Lt. George Rice after being told that the 101st Airborne would be surrounded at Bastogne

Games are like my Avatar...

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Larry
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Post by Larry » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:23 pm

Comments noted
rr/////

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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:07 pm

COMBINED ARMS

4 inf, 3 tanks and 1 bomber attacks.
Roll all 8 dices simultanesly, and then assign the numbers to matching units. This roller-system will reflect the benefit of combined arms without difficult bonus-rules. Plus it will encourage purchase of other units than infantry.

Examples: Revised units with D6
A.
8 infantry attack = roll 8 dices for 1 = maybe 1 or 2 hits.

B. All units attack independent.
4 infantry attack =roll 4 dices for 1 = 0 hits
3 tanks attack = roll 3 dices for 3 = 1 hit
1 bomber attack= roll 1 dice for 4 = 1 hit

C. The new combined arms roll, all units supporting eachother:
4 inf, 3 tanks and 1 bomber attack.
Roll 8 dices and assign the numbers to the units.
Inf got 2 hits, tanks got 2 hits and bomber 1 hit.
Now the hit ratio are dobbled, so combining arms and purchase other units than infantry are paying off.

I liftet this from some geek in General Discuss forum, dont remember his name.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:21 pm

adlertag wrote:I liftet this from some geek in General Discuss forum, dont remember his name.
It was The General. Interesting, one man's improper interpretation of the rules becomes another man's improved system. Accidents lead to discoveries.

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The Old Soldier
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Post by The Old Soldier » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:08 pm

Lots of great ideas. Okay here is a simple soldiers take.

1. Yes, I want combine arms. But, how to do it seems to be the big question. We know tanks can't operate well without infantry support. Planes were used to first clear the skys of enemies then pound the piss out of infantry columns and in some cases tank formations.

2. GG idea of grouping combine groups together is great. I'm also going to make the assumption to use Larry's values for units. I'm not going to change the system, but try to work with it.

3. To represent air superiority simply compare the number of planes vs. the enemy the player that has more may use those planes for combined arm bonus.

Normal combine arms is Armor+infantry+Artillery. The plane can only be used it has the aboved air superiority, subsituting for any of the above.

What should the bonus be? A extra die if so, what would be the base number to hit 4? It would be the simplest solution. Should it be a bonus of +1 to hit for each unit? If so it may be too powerful.



Just suggestions, I'll await your orders.

Dunckelzahn
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Combined arms

Post by Dunckelzahn » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:26 pm

1) Attacker roll dices
Attacker rolls all his dices, then assigns hits (dices) to his units.

2) Defender roll dices
Defender rolls all his dices, then assigns hits (dices) to his units.

If you have three units (that attacks on 1,2 and 3) it will increase the hit ratio with approximately 40%. This will be a very easy way to implement combined arms into the game, without spending any time on figuring out which bonus you receive.

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