Tech and National Advantages

Thanks for your input todate. Here is a collection of my thinking at this point. Please feel free to participate in this on going discussion. Your contributions are appreciated. Tell your A&A friends about this so they have a chance to voice what they want in A-A&A. I'll update the the original posting as changes and new ideas are adopted or contemplated.
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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:04 pm

here was my new idea for tech cards...

Each nation has a card with a Tech on it, its advantage when developed and a "cost"... you pay a certain amount of money to roll one die (d12) each tech phase... the number on the die is how much farther you have developed the tech... you represent this by using stacking chips... yo can develop as many techs as you want bt you mst pay one die per turn minimum to continue developing or lose all development you have made and drop the project...

what do you think?

GG
"We're airborne. We’re supposed to be surrounded."

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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:09 pm

Big G., have you been lifting this from "Attack" EagleGames ?

If you play "Attack" with tech on cards, you will soon realize how difficoult it is to keep a track on what tech you have, and you will for sure forget your sonar tech when you are in naval combat, usualy you remember it after combat is finished, and then its too late.

If we must have tech/weapons dewelopement, then let it be the sort that need an own unit you have to buy, like rockets ( Rocket plastic piece), jet fighters (me 262, shooting star, gloester meteor), UFO's (www.air), landing craft , heavy bomber (superfortress, fw Grief) and atomic bomb.

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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:43 pm

adlertag wrote:Big G., have you been lifting this from "Attack" EagleGames ?

If you play "Attack" with tech on cards, you will soon realize how difficoult it is to keep a track on what tech you have, and you will for sure forget your sonar tech when you are in naval combat, usualy you remember it after combat is finished, and then its too late.

If we must have tech/weapons dewelopement, then let it be the sort that need an own unit you have to buy, like rockets ( Rocket plastic piece), jet fighters (me 262, shooting star, gloester meteor), UFO's (www.air), landing craft , heavy bomber (superfortress, fw Grief) and atomic bomb.
bt then that requires larry to prodce more units which he is not going to do and if he waas I would rather him produce fighter-bombers (Hint-hint Wink-wink :roll: :wink: ...)

I have never played attack! in my life (although looked at it on Eagle games site)... but thanks for the info... maybe I can be a game designer when I grow up... 8)

And I don't get why someone would forget if they had a tech or not, because in AaAR I never did and it was on cardboard... this would be too just it would be in front of you... and I must clarify how this system works... just as in AaAR you can only start 1 new development per turn of your choice or you cold coose not too... but you must keep the current techs going...

GG
"We're airborne. We’re supposed to be surrounded."

Dick Winters to 2nd Lt. George Rice after being told that the 101st Airborne would be surrounded at Bastogne

Games are like my Avatar...

d6veteran
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Post by d6veteran » Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:00 pm

From what I understand, a system has to be developed that does not require additional models.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:24 pm

Guerrilla Guy wrote:here was my new idea for tech cards...

Each nation has a card with a Tech on it, its advantage when developed and a "cost"... you pay a certain amount of money to roll one die (d12) each tech phase... the number on the die is how much farther you have developed the tech... you represent this by using stacking chips... yo can develop as many techs as you want bt you mst pay one die per turn minimum to continue developing or lose all development you have made and drop the project...

what do you think?
This looks a lot like a system I proposed a couple of pages ago. Needless to say, I like it! :wink: Except for the part about losing all your development if you skip a turn - I can't see any reason for that.
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Guerrilla Guy
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Post by Guerrilla Guy » Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:54 pm

Krieghund wrote:
This looks a lot like a system I proposed a couple of pages ago. Needless to say, I like it! :wink: Except for the part about losing all your development if you skip a turn - I can't see any reason for that.
that is for scrapping the project completely... to keep it going only takes 4 IPCs.... I don't see the problem with tat... if you need the money that badly their soould be a penalty...

GG
"We're airborne. We’re supposed to be surrounded."

Dick Winters to 2nd Lt. George Rice after being told that the 101st Airborne would be surrounded at Bastogne

Games are like my Avatar...

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Post by Imperious leader » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:08 pm

But as a % of a nations total output to spend this seems totally out of proportion of what it cost to sayb Germany to make a V-2. It must have costed something, but as a percentage it was far less than 1% of the total military output. So again these tech developments must just either be ramdom with cards or in a progressive Historic thing that just happens during some point in the game.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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Post by d6veteran » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:06 pm

1) You shouldn't lose your tech completely if you don't wish to pay for a turn.

2) I don't know what the percentages of output were for any of the WW2 tech achievements. It would be interesting to research that. However, I don't think it is important to get a historical percentage in the game. IPC income and expenditure is a gross abstraction of a wartime nations economy and won't hold up to most historical criticism.

But that's that the point. Major technological advancements and superior combat arms came at a high cost. Otherwise Germany would have had more me262s and Russia would have had an atomic bomb.

Achievements weren't just random luck. Just about any development I can think of was the result of a focused effort.

Having said that I don't know what the cost should be per turn. I think the longest development track should take 5 turns.

Honestly, I can see Hvy Bombers being something like 4-4-5-7-10. That's 5 turns and a total of 30 IPCs. Just have those numbers printed right inside each square. What I like about the investment model is it mimics the total economic and strategic commitment required of a world war.

+++

Now here is something that would be really cool. You could abandon the having a unique price per turn advancement for each tech, and intead just have a series of squares at the top of the big tracking chart. Everyone who wants to research tech, puts a counter on the tech advancement bar and pays to move their counter forward each turn. When a nation first starts a counter on the tech chart, they also submit a folded scrap sheet of paper with what they are researching.

The difference between the different techs is how long it takes to research. So when a nation has finished the appropriate turns for a tech, then they reveal the scrap piece of paper to show/prove what they were researching.

The secrecy is very cool imo. Additionally, you could have some mechanic that would allow the opposing team to sneak a peak at something the other team is researching. This could be as simple as paying 1 IPC and trying to roll a 6. Of course I think this system is still cool without the spy thing.

You could research multiple techs on the chart, you'd just need to have nation tech counters with different numerals on them.

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