Heavy Artillery A Must

Thanks for your input todate. Here is a collection of my thinking at this point. Please feel free to participate in this on going discussion. Your contributions are appreciated. Tell your A&A friends about this so they have a chance to voice what they want in A-A&A. I'll update the the original posting as changes and new ideas are adopted or contemplated.
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Flashman
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Heavy Artillery A Must

Post by Flashman » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:25 pm

I believe that a form of heavy artillery is essential for an advanced game. Consider that over 50% of battlefield casualties in the war were caused by artillery. Now consider how puny artillery are in AAR (I never buy them).
What we need is a piece that can fire into adjacent land territories to represent the preliminary bombardments which were such a feature of major assaults. But these units must have a movement limitation to simulate the thrust of attacks having to "wait for the artillery to move up". So my proposal for HA is a unit that attacks ONLY in a PB, and can either fire in PB or move one territory but NOT both in any turn. What defensive capability should the unit have?

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:33 pm

Too tactical!
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Post by Imperious leader » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:35 pm

I prefer something like self propelled artillery/assault guns for germany and USSR, while anti tank guns for usa, and heavy artillery for japan and UK each would have unique values that bring the game more flavor. In my opinion we are best served by plugging into the game all the different types of units that are found in EVERY other wargame and ARE NEVER abstracted for the sake of simplicity. We only REPRESENT the actual forces with plastic pieces rather than "counters" but we do this to gain an aesthetic feel that you dont get from cardboard. Why can we just make games with this philosophy in mind. I certainly do that in my games and it really adds alot of new options. The reductionistic view that is prevelant here is far too narrow minded to see the consequences and benifits of this approach to design. In my world all different types of units have a function on the table.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:59 pm

I totally agree with Flashman, we need an artillery unit that work different from the infantry unit.

There are some prerequisits:
1. The artillery unit must roll dice in opening fire step. It do deliver long range indirect fire, like the Battleship shore bombard.

2.The artillery unit must be stronger in defence than in attack. Men running (in a charge) are more vulnerable to artillery barrage than men that are dug-in.

3.The artillery unit must be more effective against infantry, than against other units. (Tanks are protected by armour, artillery are dug-in ) There are many ways to do this:
*Work by attrition, the same way as AA-guns . Each artillery unit roll one dice to every present enemy infantry unit. Each 1 is a hit in attack, and each 3 or less is hit in defence (D12). (This is the Griffy proposal) (Also prevent huge infantry stacks)

*Each artillery hit removes two infantry casualties, or one other casualty. (This is the rule from "Attack" Eagle Games.)

*Each Artillery unit bombard adjacent territory with two dices, 4 or less is hit. (This is the Baron Games system)

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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:32 pm

I also agree with IL.
There are too many reductionists in the gaming bussiness.
To let the different units work in different ways are not too tactical, it will simply reflect the real world and add more fun. Almost everybody wants subs to have a first shot and submerge ability, and this makes the sub unit different from other ships. So why cant all units work in their natural way ?

My proposal:

*Bombers cost 15, carpet bomb infantry stacks with one dice for each present enemy infantry, every 1 is a hit.

*Fighters cost 10, and are free to pick enemy targets.

*Tanks cost 10, and roll two dices in attack. 8 or less is hit. (D12)

*Artillery cost 6, and bombard adjacent territory with two dices in opening fire step. Each hit kills two infantry or one other unit.

*Infantry cost 3, and are much stronger in defence than in attack.

*Battleships cost 24, and roll two dices in opening fire step, both in naval combat or in shore bombard. Takes two hits to sink.

*Carrier cost 16 and carry one fighter.

*Cruiser cost 16 and move extra spaces.

*Destroyer cost 8 and hunt subs.

*Subs cost 6 and work "On station" (see 3rth stage advanced)

*Tranny cost 12 and convoy two units.

I dont belive that this proposal will make the game too tactical.
I actually belive that this sort of differensiation between units are close to what real generals have to consider, when making strategies.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:53 pm

Sorry guys, I should have been more specific. The thing that I think is too tactical is the ability to bombard adjacent territories to "soften them up" for an impending attack. This is too small a scale action in the grand scheme of things, and should be incorporated into the actual attack at the time.
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Post by master_cyan » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:42 pm

i think atrillery should be 2/3 and have sneak attacks like subs. if they sneak attack they cannot move that turn and cannot be selected as a casulty(this is to repsent them firing at the enemy from a distant). so no taking hits for tanks. they would cost 4 and and move 1. The atrillery could only hit land units like a sub can only hit sea units.
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Post by Imperious leader » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:56 pm

I now have many games where artillery is preemtive in the first round. Heavy artilery can make one preemtive attack across a territory.

air power is handled seperatly with modified aerial combat values and all air hits that get thru to the land attack ( after enemy air is swept from the air space) those hits are not preemtive but the land units cannot hit the planes in any manner. The exception to this is a built in defense of artillery with some modified AA rolls. procedure: roll one d6 results 2-6 no effect. If you get a one roll a die one more time. if on the second die you get a one the plane is destroyed 2-3 the bomber (followed by fighters) return to base and take no part in combat, 4-6 no effect. cities and factories have a built in defense ( fixed defense of AA rolls)
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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