Changing LHTR name?

Axis & Allies Revised by Avalon Hill. Released in 2004.
Axis & Allies is a classic game of war, economics, and global strategy. Victory goes not only to the team that conquers its opponents on the field of battle, but also to the individual player who seizes the most enemy territory.
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Aris
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Changing LHTR name?

Post by Aris » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:28 am

Ok, so i'm playin with these 2 other guys (mostly), who are usually alliance and are usually both against me (axis).

1. they say they dont want to play with tournament rules, but i try to explain to them that LHTR are not tournament rules, but it says it right in the name. From reading on the forums i get that at gencon, you do not play strictly by LHTR set. So why is LHTR called a "tournament rules"? why not just "larry harris revised rules" or somthing like that?

2. They "claim" that it is impossible to win with allies if they are unable to drain all of germany's money away via OOB bomber rules that state EACH bomber can not take more than the total ipc of the zone, instead of the LHTR of you cannot take more than the total ipc of the zone per turn.

needless to say, i almost always play axis, and i usually win. not always, sometimes i try somethin new and it doesnt work, but for the most part i always win. and this is without any bid for axis whatsoever. ive even been contemplating giving allies a bid so they stop crying.

one last thing, does anyone have a "changed list", that just have the changes from OOB rules. So instead of printing out an entire new set of rules to have to memorize, we could just use the OOB rulebook, with a 1 or 2 page suppliment to it with changes. maybe call it "Larry Harris updated ruleset"??

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:25 am

I'm not exactly sure why they're called "tournament" rules. My best guess is that it's because they were developed by Larry with tournament organizers and on-line club administrators. They are used for tournaments, but not exclusively so. They are also used for on-line ranked games.

One reason that they were developed was that the OOB rules just don't work for competitive play. It's too easy for the Allies to win. Also, it is possible for the Axis to win very quickly if certain weapons development rolls are successful early in the game.

Even with the LHTR rules, the game still seems to slightly favor the Allies, as most clubs and tournaments still use an Axis bid for balancing. Your friends need to learn to stop relying on pummeling Germany with endless SBRs for victory. It's an important tool, but it's not a complete strategy.

That being said, people should play by whatever rules make them happy. Whether that's the OOB rules, LHTR, some combination, or house rules. Your friends aren't going to be happy if they never win.

I'm not aware of any comprehensive detailed list of all the differences between OOB and LHTR, but here's an overview: http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=108

Hope this helps!
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

Aris
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Location: Osan AB, South Korea

Post by Aris » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:08 am

well if we play OOB rules, axis pretty much always lose, specially the longer the games goes on. once usa gets heavy bombers, and is pumping out 2-3 bombers per turn who all do nothing but strategic bombing raids. id say thats a very real possibility by say 4th or 5th turn, then its game over for axis, because now germany has zero IPC every turn. So unless axis can either take moscow, or somehow pull off an operation sea lion on UK within 4 turns, they cant win.

Now i have played allies a few times with LHTR, and have won with it. But this was mostly because my apponent made mistakes with axis, and if theres one thing ive learned from playing axis all the time, is that just one mistake can cost you the game.

Is there any chance the rule-set could be changed to something like "Larry Harris Updated Rules" and then take say the gencon tourny rules, and add them to the current LHTR and call THAT the "Larry Harris Tournament Rules"??

i just dont want the people i play with to have any standings to throw out what i believe is the best rule-set for this game, based on a mis represented naming scheme alone.

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Craig A Yope
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Post by Craig A Yope » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 am

Aris wrote:Is there any chance the rule-set could be changed to something like "Larry Harris Updated Rules" and then take say the gencon tourny rules, and add them to the current LHTR and call THAT the "Larry Harris Tournament Rules"??

i just dont want the people i play with to have any standings to throw out what i believe is the best rule-set for this game, based on a mis represented naming scheme alone.
This wouldn't be an acceptable answer since I use the LHTR at my tournament (The World Boardgaming Championships (WBC) A&A Event), but I don't agree with some of the tournament specific rules that Greg Smorey uses at the Gen Con Indy and Origins tournaments that he runs.

Yes, the name should be something different since it isn't just a ruleset used specifically for tournaments, but it was thrown out there and it just stuck. It seems like it was chosen for the lack of a better choice.

Craig

BlackWatch
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Post by BlackWatch » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:49 am

I realize this is an older topic, but I'll chime in anyway.

"LH" in "LHTR" came about because Larry Harris worked with the group to actually come up with the revised rule set.

"T" for "tournament" was used because it is impossible to play any kind of competitive play with the out of the box rules - the OOB rules do not work - they are internally inconsistent.

If two people buy a game of AA Revised in Melbourne Australia, and two other people buy a game in Frankfurt Germany, each pair will need to come to some consensus on how to deal with the internal inconsistencies of the OOB rules. They will end up with some kind of "house rules" to settle differences.

If each of these pairs go online, and download a set of LHTR rules, they will all be playing with the same rule set. No "house rules" are required. For any given set of circumstances in the games they play, they will each come to the same answer.

The list of inconsistencies in the OOB rules has been recounted endlessly elsewhere - please check the oldest postings on this site to get the list.

BW
BlackWatch

Black Fox
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Post by Black Fox » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:26 pm

How about calling it LH Gamer's Rules.

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