R1 idea

Axis & Allies Revised by Avalon Hill. Released in 2004.
Axis & Allies is a classic game of war, economics, and global strategy. Victory goes not only to the team that conquers its opponents on the field of battle, but also to the individual player who seizes the most enemy territory.
dinosaur
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R1 idea

Post by dinosaur » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:30 am

Folks,

My son received this game this past Christmas and I think it is great for both of us. He is a little young so I can't judge the merits of different strategies without more capable opponents.

In a recent test game, I bought 8 inf for Russia and then attacked. I used the 3 infantry in Karelia joined by both fighters to attack Belorussia; and I used nearly everything else to attack West Russia. I held 1 infantry back from Archangel to NC move into Karelia and I NC moved the 2 inf in Kazakh into Caucasus. Then I placed 4 inf into Caucasus and the other 4 into Russia landing both fighters in Russia after the battle.

So at the end of Russias first turn I have Karelia with 1 inf, Belorussia with 1 inf, West Russia with 6 inf/2 arty/4 tank, Caucasus with 6 inf, and Russia with 4 inf/2 fighters.

At this point, it seems Germany is in a very bad situation.

The German response in Eastern Europe was to consolidate on East Europe, retaking Belorussia with a small force to avoid exposing my disjointed forces to the Russian Stack on West Russia.

The problem is that it appears there is no reasonable German strategy except to do the infantry buy thing, and hope Russia either has an epic run of bad luck or the Japanese come to the rescue soon. However, doing this, America has a free hand to build all the navy he wants because Germany can't do anything but resist Russia and hold Africa as long as possible.

With some luck, Germany may be able to get rockets early enough and buy another AA gun to attack Russia with rockets along with the Southern Europe attack on Caucusas.

Is this the basis for not allowing Russia to attack in the first turn?

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axis_roll
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Post by axis_roll » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:03 am

NAH, Germany can recover from this russian opening.

They have all 6 ftrs.
All tehy need to do it take africa as cheaply and quickly as possible, sap those resources to turn that into infantry, infantry, infantry.

Japan wins the game just like it did in Classic.

Actually the key to the eastern front is karelia.

Germany needs to get there and hold as long as possible.
Conversely, as soon as the allies force Germany out of karelia, the tide has started to turn.

Sappington
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Post by Sappington » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:50 pm

Actually the key to the eastern front is karelia.

Germany needs to get there and hold as long as possible.
Conversely, as soon as the allies force Germany out of karelia, the tide has started to turn.
Are you talking about the 4th Edition (Revised)? This sounds like a strategy from the Classic edition. Without an IC, Karelia isn't nearly as important in Revised, unless you're playing with Victory Cities. Africa isn't nearly as lucrative for Germany either, as they have the bottleneck in Anglo-Egypt to get through first, and the USA is hot on their tail usually.

Caucasus is now where the action is at, and dinosaur, it sounds like you've left far too few units there to defend it. Germany would have to strongly consider taking Caucasus, which would mean Russia couldn't produce there next turn.

Germany can greatly out-produce Russia, so Russia must be careful not to overextend themselves or they'll quickly be mopped up. Basically try to maintain a front of Caucasus, WRussia, and ArchAngel/Karelia and hope the Brits come to the rescue soon.

Not allowing Russia to attack first turn is something I've only heard of for the Classic (3rd) edition. The whole point of the rebalancing they did in 4th edition was to let Russia do whatever they wanted, but not without consequences.

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Post by swordsman3003 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:10 pm

Ther are multiple ways to make Japan stronger, but I'm not sure exactly what you're buying.

Let me recommend at least 1 Industrial Complex for Kwangtung, or French Indo China if you think you need to build closer to India.

Alternatively, a decent first turn purchase is 3 Transports and 6 Infantry, and that way you have tons a leeway as to what territory you will attack.

People really underestimate the value of transports with Japan, IMHO. Think about it: when you have so much movement, in multilpe directions, you threaten a lot of different territories. When you have all your guys stockpiled on land, your opponent knows exactly where you can attack. When you have more possiblities of attacking more places, it forces your opponent to either empty certain territories and give 'em to you, or they spread out their forces and probably lose anyways.


Something else good about using Japan on the land: Air Base Kwangtung. After every turn you attack, try to return your fighters to Kwangtung - that way you threaten Chinese/American forces, Russian forces, and British forces with a large airforce. If used in combo with the Transports, you can seriously have the Allies in retreat very quickly.


Now, you also seemed to be concerned about how to threaten the US:
do Pearl Harbor 2. The US will have to either waste a ton of money building a Navy or just abandon the Pacific theatre more or less. If they do, take the free money in Alaska just to make 'em angry.

Sappington
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Post by Sappington » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:42 pm

swordsman3003 wrote:
Let me recommend at least 1 Industrial Complex for Kwangtung, or French Indo China if you think you need to build closer to India.
Don't buy ICs until Japan's 3rd turn or so - transports are MUCH more effective and flexible, and allow you to get more troops to the mainland and faster. If you've got them properly protected, then it's worth it to lose them for whatever the Allies are wasting on them. It's less that they can send against Germany.
Alternatively, a decent first turn purchase is 3 Transports and 6 Infantry, and that way you have tons a leeway as to what territory you will attack.

People really underestimate the value of transports with Japan, IMHO. Think about it: when you have so much movement, in multilpe directions, you threaten a lot of different territories. When you have all your guys stockpiled on land, your opponent knows exactly where you can attack. When you have more possiblities of attacking more places, it forces your opponent to either empty certain territories and give 'em to you, or they spread out their forces and probably lose anyways.
I think that's the best purchase Japan can make, except that I think you mean 3 transports and 2 inf (2 * 8 + 2 * 3 = 30 ipcs). Funnel those guys to Manchuria and French Indo.
Now, you also seemed to be concerned about how to threaten the US:
do Pearl Harbor 2. The US will have to either waste a ton of money building a Navy or just abandon the Pacific theatre more or less. If they do, take the free money in Alaska just to make 'em angry.
Alaska is a waste of time and money - ignore it. All of Japan's efforts should be focused on the Asian mainland and getting as many troops there as possible. You can't afford diverting transports away from that objective; at least, not to Alaska.

swordsman3003
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Post by swordsman3003 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:00 pm

Yeah I meant to say 2 INF.


And I think that sending out a transport to Alaska can be worth it.

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Builder_Chris
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Post by Builder_Chris » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:56 am

That’s a lot of good ideas, but for me, before I can answer questions about tactics I need to answer questions about grand strategies, and before I can answer questions about grand strategies I need to know what the Victory Conditions are and how many hours I have to play the game. The strategy and tactics used to win an 8 city, 9 city, 10 city or 12 city VC are different and the amount of time you plan on playing further affects some of your options.

10 and 12 city VC’s obviously call for grand strategies that can utilize slow build ups of units and can rely on tactics that can encompass the entire globe. However, if you’re planning on playing a 10 or 12 city VC you’re going to need a lot of time or an opponent that makes lots of mistakes. Since you mentioned playing this with your son, I’m guessing your not playing 10 or 12 city VC’s as most kids now a days cant focus that long unless its a video game. At least I know my teenage son and most of his friends and cousins are that way.

So that leaves an 8 or 9 VC and since most “new” players don’t know about a 9 city VC unless they have taken the time to get their hands on a copy of the Larry Harris Tournament Rules (LHTR), that just leaves me to assume you are playing an 8 city VC.

And since 8 city VC’s don’t generally last that long when compared to the other VC conditions, I’m waging that your games are lasting between 2.5 and 3.5 hours, or about 5 to 7 rounds of play.

Other questions like are you playing with a bid, or are you ending your games after a set number of turns or a set number of hours all play into the grand strategy and tactics as well, but again, since it sounds like you and your son are fairly new to the game I’m assuming you don’t set any of those types of parameters.

So with all of that being said, I’d have to agree with several things that other players have already stated.
Germany can recover from this Russian opening

Actually the key to the eastern front is Karelia.

Germany needs to get there and hold as long as possible.
Conversely, as soon as the allies force Germany out of Karelia, the tide has started to turn

Caucasus is now where the action is at, and dinosaur, it sounds like you've left far too few units there to defend it. Germany would have to strongly consider taking Caucasus, which would mean Russia couldn't produce there next turn.

Germany can greatly out-produce Russia, so Russia must be careful not to overextend themselves or they'll quickly be mopped up. Basically try to maintain a front of Caucasus, WRussia, and ArchAngel/Karelia and hope the Brits come to the rescue soon.

Alternatively, a decent first turn purchase (for Japan)is 3 Transports and 6 Infantry, and that way you have tons a leeway as to what territory you will attack.

Don't buy ICs until Japan's 3rd turn or so - transports are MUCH more effective and flexible, and allow you to get more troops to the mainland and faster. If you've got them properly protected, then it's worth it to lose them for whatever the Allies are wasting on them. It's less that they can send against Germany.

Alaska is a waste of time and money - ignore it. All of Japan's efforts should be focused on the Asian mainland and getting as many troops there as possible. You can't afford diverting transports away from that objective; at least, not to Alaska
All of those things, IMO, are sound advice in a “fast” 8VC game.

However, some of it...
All they (Germany) need to do it take Africa as cheaply and quickly as possible, sap those resources to turn that into infantry, infantry, infantry.

I think that sending out a transport to Alaska can be worth it
Now, you also seemed to be concerned about how to threaten the US:
do Pearl Harbor 2. The US will have to either waste a ton of money building a Navy or just abandon the Pacific theatre more or less. If they do, take the free money in Alaska just to make 'em angry.
Is bad advice, IMO.

In a “short” game, not a single movement can be wasted. Anything that directs units away form your primary objectives is just a waste of your IPC, you may as well just let it get bombed out of your pocket.

Against a less experienced player you might be able to pull off the pearl harbor 2 action, but again, in a short game, let them come after you. Always keep your fleets combined as best as you can and keep them on course with your primary objective of India while always keeping an eye on the US fleet, because if they are left unchecked they can cause you some trouble by taking some of your islands worth 4 IPC’s. If at all possible only attack them when you can hit them with everything you have, other wise let them hit you. Your defending fleets are stronger than their attacking fleet, especially if the US just sends out what they have with out adding to it.

If Germany sends troops too deep into Africa that’s another waste of units in a short game, they would be better to secure the Suez Canal and shuttle troops via transports to help with a one-two punch with Japan against India, if they are going to send more troops into Africa beyond a first round strike force. Once Japan or Germany has India in their hands in a short 8 VC game, Russia is doomed, especially if they loose the Caucasus and if they push to far into Germany too soon.

Russia needs to wait a few rounds to buy its allies time to get within striking range of Germany before getting too aggressive. If they push too much too soon, they will find Germany blitzing right down their throat with Japan taking them form behind. An 8 city VC is a pretty easy kill for the Axis with an aggressive Russian player.
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axis_roll
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Post by axis_roll » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:08 pm

Well I was talking about the LHTR standard of 9 VCs and the usual Allied game plan of KGF that is so pervalent in most Revised games.
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Give Enhanced a try, Revised best variant rule set
http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=15339

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