Bombers used to transport Infantry, Artillery,Tanks & AA

Axis & Allies Revised by Avalon Hill. Released in 2004.
Axis & Allies is a classic game of war, economics, and global strategy. Victory goes not only to the team that conquers its opponents on the field of battle, but also to the individual player who seizes the most enemy territory.
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obiwanjohn
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Bombers used to transport Infantry, Artillery,Tanks & AA

Post by obiwanjohn » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:50 am

Transports carry units up to 2 sea zones by sea.

Why not have Bombers drop land units up to 2 or 3 territories away as well? OR, specifically, 1 Infantry and 1 Tank or 1 Artillery or 1 Antiaircraft? If the Bomber is 'shot down' by Antiaircraft then the units on board are also lost. Same as Transports.

I think this would be a 'new' wrinkle that would open up strategy a bit more while keeping balance. Bombers are pretty expensive in comparison to Transports. If you use a Bomber on a transport run, it would not be able to attack that turn. So, this would keep things realistic and balanced also.

Moving units 3 territories away is probably too much. But, certainly 2 would be ok. Nice house rule?

It would be great to drop Infantry, Artillery & Tanks behind enemy lines. Granted, Tanks can move 2 spaces already, but they might be obstructed from a key territory.

The other thing about this rule is you don't need to introduce specialty units such as Paratroopers to the game. The standard Infantry become 'Paratroopers' when their dropped, so to speak.

My observation is that dropping land units by air is really the only missing element to A&A. Has it been tried or suggested before? What happened to the idea? I think my idea has merit and will work. But, is Larry open to making a change at this late juncture? Granted, I'm not sure I would want to make a change either. So, this may be doomed as a nice house rule.

I'll try this house rule out today and report back. I'd like to hear comments from everyone.

Thanks
John

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:35 pm

There are two problems with this rule: historical accuracy and game scale. With regard to history, WW-II transport planes didn't have the heavy lifting capacity to carry armor or artillery units. That just leaves infantry, which leads to game scale, which is a problem that affects any attempt at a paratrooper rule in game of global scale.

The size of one "infantry unit" is very vague in A&A games. However, the size of land territories is not vague. France is France, and we know how large it is. Given that, one "infantry unit" must be large enough to occupy and control a territory, therefore one infantry unit is large enough to occupy and control an area the size of France (or Germany, etc.).

If you accept that, you must accept the fact that, with a paratrooper rule, a bomber unit can carry and drop enough soldiers to occupy and control an area the size of France. The fact is, there were never any paratrooper drops of that scale during World War II, as it would have been completely impractical. Granted, there were some large paratroop operations, but they were always in conjunction with attacks by land- or seabourne troops - not by themselves. The nature of paratroopers is that they drop behind enemy lines to disrupt enemy operations and secure forward objectives. Because of the nature of their transportation, they travel light. The only carry enough supplies and equipment to last until they're supported by the advancing conventional troops.

Given all that, a "paratrooper unit" must be smaller than an "infantry unit" is in this game. This leads to the conclusion that a "paratrooper unit" is already assumed to be abstracted into the "infantry unit". It simply doesn't merit being a separate entity in a game on this scale.

However, if we must have paratroopers at all, they should have to stop moving as soon as they enter hostile territory, as they do in AA50. This prevents the outrageously unrealistic possibility of dropping paratroopers hundreds of miles behind enemy lines with no hope at all of timely support from conventional troops.

Just my two IPCs.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

obiwanjohn
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by obiwanjohn » Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:38 am

[quote=However, if we must have paratroopers at all, they should have to stop moving as soon as they enter hostile territory, as they do in AA50. This prevents the outrageously unrealistic possibility of dropping paratroopers hundreds of miles behind enemy lines with no hope at all of timely support from conventional troops.

Just my two IPCs.[/quote]


Yes, I would agree their movement would stop just as in an Amphibious Assaults; on that turn.

But, here's the flipside of what you said. You're considering 1 Bomber to represent just 1 Bomber but 1 Infantry to represent a Platoon or Regiment. If 1 Infantry represents a division, then 1 Bomber must represent a squadron or squadrons of Bombers. You can't have it both ways.

So, how does it work in AA50. How far can the units be dropped? Does it apply to Tanks & Artillery or just Infantry units?

I think Bombers should be able to drop 2 Infantry up to 3 spaces away. You've indicated that in WW2 we did not have the ability to drop Tanks, etc. I didn't know that. I do think dropping units more than 3 spaces away is not realistic from a gameplay perspective.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:34 am

obiwanjohn wrote:But, here's the flipside of what you said. You're considering 1 Bomber to represent just 1 Bomber but 1 Infantry to represent a Platoon or Regiment. If 1 Infantry represents a division, then 1 Bomber must represent a squadron or squadrons of Bombers. You can't have it both ways.
I never said that one bomber piece represents one bomber. There isn't any piece in A&A that represents just one of anything, battleships included.

My point is that an infantry piece must represent so many individual soldiers that you would need a huge number of transport planes to conduct paratrooper operations with them. Paratrooper operations on that scale just aren't logistically feasible, whether you actually have the requisite number of planes or not.
obiwanjohn wrote:So, how does it work in AA50. How far can the units be dropped? Does it apply to Tanks & Artillery or just Infantry units?
Each bomber can carry one infantry, and the bomber must stop in the first enemy-controlled territory that it encounters along its movement. The bomber may also attack in the battle.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

obiwanjohn
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by obiwanjohn » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Krieghund wrote:
obiwanjohn wrote:But, here's the flipside of what you said. You're considering 1 Bomber to represent just 1 Bomber but 1 Infantry to represent a Platoon or Regiment. If 1 Infantry represents a division, then 1 Bomber must represent a squadron or squadrons of Bombers. You can't have it both ways.
I never said that one bomber piece represents one bomber. There isn't any piece in A&A that represents just one of anything, battleships included.

My point is that an infantry piece must represent so many individual soldiers that you would need a huge number of transport planes to conduct paratrooper operations with them. Paratrooper operations on that scale just aren't logistically feasible, whether you actually have the requisite number of planes or not.
obiwanjohn wrote:So, how does it work in AA50. How far can the units be dropped? Does it apply to Tanks & Artillery or just Infantry units?
Each bomber can carry one infantry, and the bomber must stop in the first enemy-controlled territory that it encounters along its movement. The bomber may also attack in the battle.

AA50 seems like an excellent rule. I like the idea of being able to land an Infantry unit behind enemy lines; to grab a territory. The reality is, that lone Infantry won't last very long without nearby tanks, etc. But, even more relevent is now you can bring more forces to bare on a territory and not just by land or sea. I like the idea of the Bomber still being able to attack. Limiting it to 1 Infantry instead of 2 seems better from a realism standpoint based on what you've said.

I think it works for Revised as a house rule also.

Thanks for the reply.
John

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