Possible Victory Conditions

Proposed Victory Conditions based on points.
User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:37 am

DonMoody wrote:"gee how bout about the six battleships that were sunk or heavily damaged in Hawaii and raised to fight within a year or two,"

I could be wrong but I think you mean:

BB-36 Nevada - Sunk in the PH attack, refloated 12 February 1942, repaired at Puget Sound Navy Yard. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

BB-38 Pennsylvania - In drydock at the time of the PH attack, sustained some damage and casualties. On 20 December 1941, Pennsylvania sailed for San Francisco, where she underwent repairs until 30 March 1942. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

BB-43 Tennessee - Damaged but not sunk in the PH attack, left PH 20 December, arrived at the Puget Sound Navy Yard on 29 December 1941, where permanent repairs were commenced. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

BB-44 California - Sunk in the PH attack, refloated 25 March 1942, departed PH 07 June for Puget Sound Navy yard, where major repairs were done. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

BB-46 Maryland - Damaged but not sunk in the PH attack, she arrived 30 December at Puget Sound Navy Yard, where major repairs were done. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

BB-48 West Virginia - Sunk in the PH attack, refloated on 17 May 1942, received a complete rebuilding at the Puget Sound Navy Yard. (That is, repaired on the West Coast, not in Hawaii)

But as all of these required repairs on the West Coast before they reentered Service, I am not sure what you are talking about (certainly, you are not using these BBs as evidence that major, return to service repairs of capital ships could be completed at PH).


"or the Yorktown that was damaged in Coral sea and made fit for combat in 48 hours?"

In the Battle of the Coral Sea, Yorktown took one bomb which penetrated the flight deck and exploded below decks, causing 66 casualties.
Even with this damage, Yorktown continued flight operations.
This is 8th of May.
On 27 May, Yorktown arrives at PH and on 30 May departs PH as the central ship of TF 17.

It is very questionable as to whether the damage sustained by Yorktown in the Battle of the Coral Sea would even appear in a game of this scale.
Certainly, the damage to the BBs listed above would appear but it is unlikely that anything other than the sinking of the Yorktown at Midway would show up on this scale.

So again I ask/state:
"Except for very minor repairs, what capital ships were repaired or refitted at PH?
Most went to the West Coast (because it was only a few days from PH to the West Coast)."

And again I clarify that:
"The Hawaiian Islands real advantage to the US was primarily logistical. "

DonMoody

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:38 am

Craig A Yope wrote:DM- That is why I hate the unlimited production of Hawaii in A&A Pacific. I had not played it n two years, but on the spur of the moment I did last Saturday. The American player was able to plop down an ungodly amount of ordnance in Hawaii and stymie my Australia attack. It should have to start on the US west coast.

Craig

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:39 am

Imperious leader wrote:I had to recheck things and found that basically Hawaii was not capable of even repairing ships as moody had pointed out and they were done at Navy Yard, Puget Sound, Wash. near East Port Orchard, Washington. So I too dont see the point in allowing Hawaii getting anything other than the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" status.
Repairs would have to be done on the west coast, and perhaps adding san diego for builds as well. The Industrial complexes should be printed on the map (gets rid of another piece). make them fixed since the Soviets had allready transfered production to the Urals by this time anyway, their simply is no need for a "piece". During wartime you cant simply build factories and the next turn start making "essex" class carriers. Lastly, factories cant be totally destroyed. Tahe the Rhur area of Germany which was bombed into oblivion and yet still produced war materiel for the war effort. Let the factories be allowed attacks by SBR and thats it. keep it simple

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:40 am

Krieghund wrote:This discussion brings up a good point. Which west coast city is the best candidate for a US victory city? We are pretty much agreed it is not LA (unless you want to count John Wayne movies for morale). So which city was most important for the war effort?

Should it be San Francisco? San Diego? Another city?

Thoughts? Reasons?

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:41 am

elbowmaster wrote:
Krieghund wrote:This discussion brings up a good point. Which west coast city is the best candidate for a US victory city? We are pretty much agreed it is not LA (unless you want to count John Wayne movies for morale). So which city was most important for the war effort?

Should it be San Francisco? San Diego? Another city?

Thoughts? Reasons?
VC, id pick Oakland / San Francisco bay area... 8) but to get some real VC action, id pick juneau, alaska, ive maybe seen three times in my entire life of playing AA game, west coast being taken by japan...

i dont think west coast of the lower 48 has any gaming potential...

perhaps we need to rethink what really is a VC...

____________________________________________________________

this isnt really about the VC, i guess im thinking ports...OOPS!!

its kinda a map thing too, id have these bases as seperate sea zones of entry...

1) Puget Sound, Wash. near East Port Orchard, Washington. (don moodys information)

2) Mare Island, Oakland / San Francisco bay area (huge munitions depot at port chicago)

3) San Diego (conversations here about san diego)

again, my thought on this is they need to have seperate sea zones of entry, other than the "1" sea zone that we see in aa, aar, aap...IMO

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:42 am

Imperious leader wrote:San diego and Puget sound should be only ports, while SF should be a port and a VC as well. Hawaii is proven useless as a repair facility. They did repair the Yorktown and raise 6 battleships, but these wounded vessels were sailed to Puget sound for the actual retrofits and repairs. perhaps San diego was too far or did not have the room, or facilities to refurbish the ships.

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:43 am

PAGAN wrote:There are only 3 viable ports for shipping on the west coast with large enough sub canyon space for deep draft shipping:

Northern CA: San francisco

Mid-Southern CA: Port Hueneme (seabee base & civilian import)

Southern CA: San Diego

If you want a CA port, then those are the ONLY deep draft ports available.

User avatar
elbowmaster
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
Location: "western boogerland"
Contact:

Post by elbowmaster » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:43 am

DonMoody wrote:"That is why I hate the unlimited production of Hawaii in A&A Pacific. I had not played it n two years, but on the spur of the moment I did last Saturday. The American player was able to plop down an ungodly amount of ordnance in Hawaii and stymie my Australia attack. It should have to start on the US west coast."

And it should have been able to sail from the West Coast to PH in about a week, and it should have been able to sail from PH to just about any where else in the Pacific in about another week, and it should essentially have a move much, much greater than 2 unless the turns are each about a week.

DonMoody

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests