FAQ

Wacht am Rhein (Watch on the Rhein) was the German code name for this counter offensive. I don't want to hear anybody complaining about the weather this winter unless you were in the Ardennes during the winter of 1944! I simply love playing this game. Check out the new combat system when you can.
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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:46 am

Nuclear wrote:Tip/suggestion for Larry. When you come out with an Axis and Allies Game that has confusing rules, perhaps instead of providing just an instruction manual, you could provide a video that explains how to play the game.

My dad and I spent over 7 hours trying to figure out the rules. Lets just say that your rules are harder to read then the Philosophical Articles that I read which are very involved.

I am currently going for BA in philosophy and plan to continue onto to get an MA. However your rules seem to not even follow logic at times. Your rules have too many different possible meanings.

At the end of it, my dad and I got fed up with trying to figure out the game, and just walked away from it. In my opinion it was a waste of money. It is worthless without understandable rules.
That's rather harsh, Nuclear. I haven't had much trouble figuring out these rules, except for some ambiguities in the Truck movement. Many individual rules may have multiple meanings taken out of context, but when the rules are taken as a whole logic usually provides a correct interpretation of their meaning. Of course, there are always mistakes and omissions, but that's what errata and FAQs are for. Believe me, I've seen rules that were much more confusing than these! Are they perfect? No, but they're not as bad as you're making them out to be.

Here's a tip. Generally, I read through the rules of a new game twice before playing the first time, then once more after. This usually provides some insight into any perceived ambiguities. Happy gaming!
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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:03 am

Larry, another small question: Can two units that were retreated in the same battle retreat to different hexes? There is nothing in the rules that says they can't, but I thought I may as well check.

Also, any progress on deciding which of the 3 versions of the truck movement answer you want to use?
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Post by Larry » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:10 am

Can two units that were retreated in the same battle retreat to different hexes… yes

Kriegund – I did not realize that we still had an outstanding issue to resolve. I am so sorry... What are you referring to – (which of the 3 versions of the truck movement). Please remind me.

\Nuclear’s issues are most unfortunate. I know Avalon Hill and I have worked hard on the rules. There always seems to be points in a game where a lot of confusion reigns. In this game it’s mostly the trucks (for some reason). In games of the past, it was always the submarines. In any case… I hope he appreciates your efforts and the efforts of others who are trying to clear up these sometimes murky waters. I have been pushing for video rules for years… but even they are no guarantee of clarity.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:41 pm

Larry wrote:Kriegund – I did not realize that we still had an outstanding issue to resolve. I am so sorry... What are you referring to – (which of the 3 versions of the truck movement). Please remind me.
The truck movement question has two possible answers.

The question was:
Q: I am a little confused about how Truck movement works. Could you explain it to me?

Option 1:
A: At the beginning of the Movement and Reinforcement phase, you may move any of your "free" Trucks that are on the board to your off-board area. Free Trucks are Trucks that either a) are not in an enemy zone of control (ZoC) and can trace a path on roads to a friendly edge of the board without passing through an enemy ZoC or enemy-controlled city, or b) are in a hex on a friendly edge of the board (even if that hex is in an enemy ZoC) with a road going off the board.

During the Movement part of the phase, each Truck that remained on-board can drive all over the board (and off it), staying on roads, until the truck either enters or leaves an enemy ZoC, enters an enemy-controlled city, leaves the board, or decides to stop. As the Truck moves it can load up to a total of six supply tokens and/or activated units (Infantry and/or Artillery) that have not moved yet from the hexes it passes through. If the Truck moves off-board, it may continue its move by re-entering the board in Reinforcement part of the phase. Trucks may not leave the board from a hex in enemy territory. The Truck may not unload until its movement stops on-board, at which point it unloads all of its cargo into the hex in which it stopped.

During the Reinforcement part of the phase, each off-board Truck (including this turn's reinforcement Trucks) can load up to its capacity of six supply tokens and/or Infantry and/or Artillery units from the off-board area (including this turn's reinforcements from any of the charts). Each of these Trucks then enters the board and moves exactly as in the Movement part of the phase (except that it may not exit the board again), filling any remaining cargo spaces as it moves. These Trucks may enter the board in any valid reinforcement entry hex (see page 21), regardless of the reinforcement chart they or their cargo came from.

Supplies may only be moved by Truck. No supply tokens need to be paid to move either Trucks or supplies.

Option 2:
A:At the beginning of the Movement and Reinforcement phase, you may move any of your "free" Trucks that are on the board to your off-board area. Free Trucks are Trucks that either a) are not in an enemy zone of control (ZoC) and can trace a path on roads to a friendly edge of the board without passing through an enemy ZoC or enemy-controlled city, or b) are in a hex on a friendly edge of the board (even if that hex is in an enemy ZoC) with a road going off the board.

During the Movement part of the phase, each Truck that remained on-board can drive all over the board (but not off it), staying on roads, until the Truck either enters or leaves an enemy ZoC, enters an enemy-controlled city, or decides to stop. As the Truck moves it can load up to a total of six supply tokens and/or activated units (Infantry and/or Artillery) that have not moved yet from the hexes it passes through. The Truck may not unload until its movement stops, at which point it unloads all of its cargo into the hex in which it stopped.

During the Reinforcement part of the phase, each off-board Truck (including this turn's reinforcement Trucks) can load up to its capacity of six supply tokens and/or Infantry and/or Artillery units from the off-board area (including this turn's reinforcements from any of the charts). Each of these Trucks then enters the board and moves exactly as in the Movement part of the phase (except that it may exit the board again), filling any remaining cargo spaces as it moves. These Trucks may enter the board in any valid reinforcement entry hex (see page 21), regardless of the reinforcement chart from which they or their cargo came. If a Truck moves off-board, it may load more off-board supplies/and or units (provided it has room) and continue its move by re-entering the board in any valid reinforcement entry hex. Trucks may not leave the board from a hex in enemy territory and must end their move on-board.

Supplies may only be moved by Truck. No supply tokens need to be paid to move either Trucks or supplies.
Option 2 was based on my suggestion that prohibiting trucks that remain on-board at the beginning of the phase from moving off-board at all might simplify things. That way only on-board movements occur during the Movement part of the phase, and off-board movement only occurs in the Reinforcement part. Restricting off-board movement to the Reinforcement part of the phase makes sense, and I can't see anywhere in the rules that specifically says you can move off-board in the Movement phase.

The only real advantage I can see to being able to move trucks off-board during the Movement part of the phase is that the Allies might have a truck freed up by German movements that wasn't free at the beginning of the phase. Other than that, moving off-board during the Movement part is completely superfluous, as the supplies/units could just as easily be moved by moving a truck off-board at the beginning of the phase and using it during the Reinforcement phase.



I think that either of these answers will work under the rules as they are written (but please double-check me on this), so you just need to pick one. But, the other outstanding issue may influence your choice...

The only other issue remaining is whether or not trucks are allowed to pick up stuff on-board, then move off-board, then come back on-board. The rules say that units may not leave the board once they are on it. If you interpret this strictly it stops players from moving stuff from one area of the board to another if they can't trace an on-board road path. If you interpret it that on-board units can't end their move off-board, it allows more flexibility in repositioning units. This will come up eventually.

If you want to allow this, it is easily covered in answer 2 in that it says that all truck movement during Movement and Reinforcement must end on the board. This keeps any supplies and units already on the board from moving back off it during Movement, and during Reinforcement they can move off-board temporarily, but they always end their move on-board. If you don't want to allow it, the red text in answer number 2 is simply removed. Neither possibility is as easily dealt with using answer number 1, since off-board movement spans both parts of the phase.


Also, please check your private messages. Thanks.
Last edited by Krieghund on Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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elbowmaster
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Great Job on the FAQs

Post by elbowmaster » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:34 pm

nice work on the FAQs... I find them helpful and generally the question is asked and answered before I can post the question...

sure this is different then what we are used to IE classic / revised, but it is still created by Larry Harris, and is more Axis & Allies then the Minis, which I liked at 1st but bailed due to quality issues.

I did similar to Kreighund, read the rules at least twice, then do a mock game with movement examples, at 1st its awkward, but then flows quite nicely, and I really like the supply rules, it adds a completely new dynamic forcing the use of limited resources. The casualty table is awkward too, but try a few battles and it becomes more clear.

Plus what better place to ask your questions??? Id say we are in good hands here and Larry is doing more then most designers which I totally appreciate.

Good luck and keep gaming!!

EM

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Nuclear
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Post by Nuclear » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:50 pm

Larry wrote:Can two units that were retreated in the same battle retreat to different hexes… yes

Kriegund – I did not realize that we still had an outstanding issue to resolve. I am so sorry... What are you referring to – (which of the 3 versions of the truck movement). Please remind me.

\Nuclear’s issues are most unfortunate. I know Avalon Hill and I have worked hard on the rules. There always seems to be points in a game where a lot of confusion reigns. In this game it’s mostly the trucks (for some reason). In games of the past, it was always the submarines. In any case… I hope he appreciates your efforts and the efforts of others who are trying to clear up these sometimes murky waters. I have been pushing for video rules for years… but even they are no guarantee of clarity.
Thank you Larry. I must have read the rules about 5 to 6 times and still do not understand them fully. I am glad that you have been pushing for video rules for years.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand Binary and those that do not.

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Post by elbowmaster » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:53 pm

Larry wrote: I have been pushing for video rules for years… but even they are no guarantee of clarity.
it would be simple for a powerpoint presentation or even a movie file.

this could be put on a cd and wouldnt add that much more cost to a final product...I mean look at AOL and all the cd's they send out...

good idea, hope it happens at some point.

EM

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Larry
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Post by Larry » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:39 pm

Kreighund -Well a couple of things… I thought I answered this question already.
The trucks that remained on the board probably remained because they were in an enemy zone of control… If and when they do move they can move one space out of the ZOC.

Trucks that were not in a ZOC but where not moved off board can move during the normal movement phase… Why would anyone not have moved them off the board already? Well, sure, they can be moved off the board. It's going to be tricky however... keep an eye on what truck did not move off board that could have and the trucks that were moved but only one space that moved them out of the enemy ZOC. The Enemy ZOC that prevented them from moving in the first place. Trucks cannot move units off board unless they return the units to the board. In other words they cannot transport units or supplies off the board and not return them that turn.

I don’t see anything in “A” that I disagree with. “B” suggest that a truck that remained on board can drive all over the board but not off it. I don’t agree with that. Why would a truck enter the board, move all around (I guess not unloading) and exit the board… ? Well in any case, it can drive off the board

What am I missing here?

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