Greeting to Larry Harris: Topic by Darksideknight

Apparently The Axis & Allies site over at Avalon Hill is going to be phased out soon. A new one will replace it. If you have something over there that you don’t want to be evaporated into thin air then cut and paste it, and bring it over here so that it is not lost forever.
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Greeting to Larry Harris: Topic by Darksideknight

Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:56 pm

01-25-2004, 10:41 PM #1
Darksideknight
Location: Columbia, MO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saw that Larry was the newest member! Wow! Maybe we will get some info from the legend, that Masterminded the greatest war game ever! Great job on the new game Larry, Mike and the rest of the A&A team. What I've heard so far sounds fantastic. Had a question for you. Will we get more insight about the game D-Day?

....PLEASE?

-Jason

[ January 26, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Darksideknight ]
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01-26-2004, 07:17 AM #2
simply4est
Future Field Marshall
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Yes, indeed, it will be great to have him on these forums - hopefully it's not just a fan who used the name for a forum alias ... lol.

I keep wondering if the AA system will ever be applied to a game focused on the Russian Front. I've seen some made by smaller companies, but they didn't seem too appealing.
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01-26-2004, 09:07 AM #3
elbowmaster
Location: "boogerland"
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could it be just someone using that name as a joke??

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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01-26-2004, 09:23 AM #4
westernwarrior
Location: michigan
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not to sound stupid...........but who is larry harris.....?

lawrence



01-26-2004, 09:28 AM #5
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
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he is the person who created the original axis and allies (nova games) game before selling out to Milton Bradley, his version is alot different than what ended up being mass produced.

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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01-26-2004, 12:59 PM #6
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
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Darksideknight – thanks for the warm welcome. So you want some insights into D-Day. Perhaps Mike Selinker (a great guy) and I will put something together. I do think the launch date is sometime in May so there is plenty of time. I can you tell you this… I think D-Day is a very very cool game. I sometimes call it Arm Wrestling in Normandy.

Hello to you Forest. So you want a Russian Front game? I was thinking more about Guadalcanal or The Battle of the Bulge.

Western Warrior – not to sound stupid but I don’t know you either.

Elbowmaster – I was reading one of you postings. I think it was yesterday. You had a web site address that took me to your very cool war room maps. Truly a labor of love.

Above you refer to me as the creator of the original Axis & Allies game. You know back when they really knew how to make games. IMHO the Bradley version, which I designed as well, is far better. It in fact stood up to the test of time. Twenty years to be exact. What games have been around for 20 years? You can count them on your fingers.

Regards


Larry Harris

01-26-2004, 01:06 PM #7
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
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wow...!! thanks for taking the time checking out my tribute to one of my most favorite games... -=A&A=- FEEL THE POWER !!

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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01-26-2004, 02:11 PM #8
simply4est
Future Field Marshall
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"Hello to you Forest. So you want a Russian Front game? I was thinking more about Guadalcanal or The Battle of the Bulge."

They sound great! How about all three?!
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01-26-2004, 03:26 PM #9
Darksideknight
Location: Columbia, MO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the quick response, That would be really neat if we could get some insight to D-Day. I know alot of fans of the game,(myself included) would be thrilled to hear anything new at all about the game.

thanks for your time -Jason

[ January 26, 2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Darksideknight ]
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01-26-2004, 05:49 PM #10
westernwarrior
Location: michigan
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well larry harris its a pleasure to meet you and thanks for the great game......Battle of the Bulge.Eastern Front...sound great.......how about something along the lines of the Battle of Britain...bombers fighters over England.....radar and coastal watch civilians.......just a thought
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:58 pm

01-27-2004, 09:43 AM #11
ButchOHare1
Senior Member
Location: Chicago, IL
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Hey Larry! It's great to know you are overseeing this revision. We can trust you to keep Mike in line. [img]smile.gif[/img]

We are all looking forward to A & A and D-Day.

Are you still playing? Maybe a play by Message board game between you and Mike as Axis versus all of us as allies when the new game comes out? [img]smile.gif[/img]
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01-27-2004, 10:00 AM #12
Guderian_Krieg
Junior Member
Location: UK
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Hi Larry,
Have u ever played the hasbro CD version online and what do u (if u did) think of it.
...mac...
P.S.butch thinks he is great but ill beat hm with a 6 bid no problem lol.sorry butch FM


01-27-2004, 10:09 AM #13
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
Location: "boogerland"
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Butch has passion for the game, and is a proud owner of an elbowmaster map [img]smile.gif[/img] couldnt help myself...thanks Butch!!

shameless plugg!!

-=A&A=- FEEL THE POWER !!!

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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01-27-2004, 02:41 PM #14
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elbowmaster – don’t mention it. You’ve done some very cool things with those maps.

Forest – I should point out that those are my own thoughts and in no way necessarily represent the thinking of Avalon Hill.

Western Warrior – I don’t think it could work. Not unless it permitted a Operation Sea-Lion (German plan to invade Britain).

ButchOHare1 - boy I’ve seen you name around for years! Be nice, I don’t keep Mike in line. It’s probably the reverse. It’s rare when you can find someone to work effectively with. When it happens it generates true synergism. The new A&A will truly benefit from Mike’s leading role. There are a lot of very talented folks at Wizards and it has been a pleasure for me to have worked with them. I look forward to more of the same.

Yeah great idea, Mike and me against all you expert players, I’m not into that kind of self abuse.. Mike probably would be interested however.


01-27-2004, 03:14 PM #15
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
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Quote:
Yeah great idea, Mike and me against all you expert players, I’m not into that kind of self abuse.. Mike probably would be interested however.

Way to be a friend, Larry. "Circle of Hell, meet Mike. Mike, circle of Hell."

Remember, according to AARommel, I'm ... what was it again? Oh yeah, "someone who isn't among the best at the game." Now why would you want to play someone like that?

Mike


01-27-2004, 03:19 PM #16
elbowmaster
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touche [img]smile.gif[/img]
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01-28-2004, 12:11 PM #17
simply4est
Future Field Marshall

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"Forest – I should point out that those are my own thoughts and in no way necessarily represent the thinking of Avalon Hill."

I still want all of them! I don't know why these game companies have such a problem turning out one-game factory runs just for me ... lol.
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01-28-2004, 01:15 PM #18
SkyPilot
Illustrator
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by western warrior:
.......how about something along the lines of the Battle of Britain...bombers fighters over England.....radar and coastal watch civilians.......just a thought

Battle of Britain huh? Give this link a try and tell me what you think so far (Larry Harris, this includes you!)

Battle of Britain map under development...



01-28-2004, 02:11 PM #19
elbowmaster
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Quote:
Battle of Britain huh? Give this link a try and tell me what you think so far (Larry Harris, this includes you!)

nice job wolfpack !!
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01-28-2004, 10:19 PM #20
Darksideknight
Senior Member
Location: Columbia, MO
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Is that your map Wolfpack? If so it could make a nice stageing ground for a A&A based game.

-Jason
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:58 pm

01-29-2004, 12:10 AM #21
mac224b
Junior Member
Location: Tustin
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Terrific! Could be used for France/1940, SeaLion, France 1944, Germany 1945 games, all sharing the same units, pretty much.

[ January 29, 2004, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: mac ]


01-29-2004, 05:31 PM #22
SkyPilot
Illustrator
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by mac:
Terrific! Could be used for France/1940, SeaLion, France 1944, Germany 1945 games, all sharing the same units, pretty much.

This is precicely what we designed it for; many scenarios using A&AE pieces. Of course the A&A Europe map is excellent but we always desired more territories. Keep checking for updates and feel free to make suggestions for unit placements for the above starting dates. Thanks again!


01-29-2004, 11:54 PM #23
Drax Kramer
Senior Member
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfpack:

Of course the A&A Europe map is excellent but we always desired more territories.

I disagree. The fact that Belorussia is adjacent to Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad destroys any potential of having a mobile war in Russia. One large Soviet stack there can defend all three factories and the whole image of Eastern front (you know Army Group North, Army Group Centre, Army Group South marching on divergent axis of advance) is destroyed.

Another thing that was wrong was North Africa. Instead of dividing Lybia into Tripolitania and Cyrenaica and giving us a historical battleground to fight over we got Axis troops deployed in Tunisia (in 1941?) and all sorts of useless tiy territories in the Middle East.

A man who designed A&A:E map had little or no grasp about Second World War in Russia and North Africa.

Drax



01-30-2004, 02:32 AM #24
Attila
Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Drax,


Quote:
A man who designed A&A:E map had little or no grasp about Second World War in Russia and North Africa.

Maybe you are right, but it is not a historical simulation. It is a game (one of the good ones).

MrA&A


01-30-2004, 06:28 AM #25
Epicedion
Member
Location: US
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WHY must people incessantly and needlessly USE capital letters ALL the TIME?

Seriously, there's been plenty of discussion on the figures already.

--Epicedion



01-30-2004, 06:39 AM #26
Drax Kramer
Senior Member
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrAxis&Allies:

Maybe you are right, but it is not a historical simulation. It is a game (one of the good ones).

Axis&Allies:Europe is game about the WW2 in European Theatre of Operations that can be played within an evening.

That this is supposed to be a simple game does not necessary mean that it shouldn't be recognisable as WW2 game.

Even if you know nothing about history, the relative position of Belorusia vis-a-vis Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad is a bad one because it limits the flexibility of players.

The map is bad, no matter what way you look at it, historical or gamewise.

An example of good A&A map is Pacific one with the sole exception of useless rightmost column of sea zones/territories.

Drax


01-31-2004, 05:02 AM #27
Krieghund
A&A Boardgame Answer Guy
Location: Richmond, VA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's help with armor at least:

C in C products, on the web as pfc-cinc, makes tanks designed to be used with Axis & Allies.

[ February 02, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Moderator John ]
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01-31-2004, 07:33 AM #28
Darksideknight
Senior Member
Location: Columbia, MO
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Well, sorry Larry, this was supposed to be a Greeting list, looks as though it's turned out to be a want list Thanks again for the wonderfull games and the new ones to come.

....By the way those are some cool lookin' tanks Krieghund! Although they are a bit pricey

-Jason

[ January 31, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Darksideknight ]
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01-31-2004, 09:09 AM #29
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
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Woldfpack – See you in court (just joking). Interesting maps. You’ve taken the time to map out areas of the war that obviously interest you a great deal. Then you built a game around the map. Great fun. That was a lot of work. You go brother!

Drazen Kramaric - I pretty much designed the A&A Europe map myself. I do have a pretty good grasp on the war in Russia and North Africa subject matter. I thought the map layout was good. In any case I tried. I do hope you found some redeeming value in the game, and do feel at liberty to whip out a black sharpie and draw your own boundary lines. In any case, you will not be getting any arguments out of me on this posting board because in my mind you, the fan, customer, player are always right. If you’re not happy I’m not happy. You’re comments have been noted.

MrAxis&Allies (love your posting name) - your comments “its not a historical simulation but a game”. It is a game first but when ever possible history steers the direction it takes. Not everyone like the direction taken but based on the popularity of the game… I guess I can conclude most people like the direction. Thanks for your support.

GROGnads – Ok why not this, why not that… I’ll try to give some answers to your questions. First of all I’m not one of those guys who never make mistakes and knows everything. The only thing I do know for sure is that I am in fact really good looking.

British Churchill tanks and 150mm artillery… Oh yeah. Had to keep cost down. Do you have any idea what it cost to develop each of these individual units. The British commonly used Sherman’s and American 105’s. This looked like a reasonable way to save some manufacturing cost and yet provide a good product.

I probably should have used the Me-109 or Fw-190 instead of the Stuka. I just liked the Stuka and liked the distinctive look it had. It separated itself from the other fighters. Also it was such a famous plane. I don’t know… I made the call and there we are. Avalon Hill – which I can in no way speak for. I am not employed by them, will probably never get into producing World War II pieces for Czechoslovakia, Poland and so on. I can’t think of any manufacture other than one that specializes in that kind of endeavor ever making such units for this game. You seem to take your Axis & Allies look and feel very seriously. I understand that and so do I. That’s why we have what we have now. Which when you think about it is pretty amazing. Are there any other game manufactures out there who have even come close to providing this kind of detail to game pieces.

Epicedion – THANKS FOR DROPPING BY.

Krieghund – CinC are good people. Thanks for sharing that web site address.

Darksideknight – Greeting list…? Get real. If it is, as you say, a “want list”, that’s ok. If it’s a “I’m smarter and know history better than you” list that’s ok too. A bit unnecessary because that’s already established, but again that’s ok. I like talking about my favorite game and enjoy talking about some of the more controversial aspects of the game. I also like talking about what’s right with the game too. Talk later. More importantly, I like talking to people out there who play and love the game I created. Think about it... that would be a special moment for anybody.



01-31-2004, 09:21 AM #30
elbowmaster
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Location: "boogerland"
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very kewl larry, thanks for taking the time to calm us all down

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:59 pm

02-01-2004, 03:45 AM #31
patronium
Junior Member
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Hi Larry, it's great that you enjoy talking to the fans like this. I want to make sure I get some comments and questions in while you're here.

Firstly, what is your favourite country to play as in the new Axis and Allies?

Another thing, you said you mostly designed the A&A Europe map yourself, did you also create the map for Pacific? I think Pacific is my favourite A&A game so far. Hopefully that will be replaced by the new revision when it is released.

Is there anything you can tell us about A&A D-Day? How it plays for example?

And finally, you were mentioning possible future A&A games after the revision and D-Day are released. I think that games focused on specfic battles would be excellent, and I really believe that they would sell well. Hopefully Avalon Hill will be convinced too, when they see the sales figures from the A&A revision and A&A D-Day.

I think that's all I wanted to say.

[ February 01, 2004, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: patronium ]
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02-01-2004, 07:48 AM #32
Drax Kramer
Senior Member
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Harris:

Drazen Kramaric - I pretty much designed the A&A Europe map myself. I do have a pretty good grasp on the war in Russia and North Africa subject matter. I thought the map layout was good. In any case I tried.

In last couple of years I followed the design process of several WW2 games (Totaler Krieg, A World at War, Europe Engulfed). The design was an open process, the rules were always available for studying and proofreading and when maps were available, people could share their comments and opinions. Consimworld served as a forum for TK and EE, while Yahoo was hosting AWAW forum.

Nothing like that ever happened during the design of A&A games. So, the A&A:E map went to the market with Iran bordering Syria (an error) or Rumania bordering Ukraine directly (instead through Bessarabia).

But what I found most regretable was the fact that Lybia was not divided upon Tripolitania and Cyrenaica. What made me comment about the lack of historical background during the map designing process?

The basic strategic reason Rommel was sent to Africa was to defend Lybia for Italians. In Africa, Axis were the defensive side while British were the once with strategic initiative.

British had the strategic initiative because they had superior logistics in the theatre which in A&A mechanism could only be represented by an industrial complex. Unfortunately, there is none in the Middle East and in addition, rules prevented British player from constructing one. History aside, this simply isn't fun if you're a British player. No North African campaign, no sea war in the Mediterranean. What should have been a valid strategic option for British player has been removed from the game.

The reason why Hitler could not afford the loss of Lybia was the vulnerability of Italian position. As history showed, once Lybia was gone, Sicily followed and Italy capitulated when Allies landed on the boot. To prevent that and secure the "southern flank" of the invasion of Russia, Hitler got himself involved in the Balkans and the Mediterranean.

But the game has nothing of it. No Italy - no Italian capital in the territory of Southern Italy (yes, Rome should have been in the South to represent the historical fact that Italians surrendered the moment the "boot" has been successfully invaded by Allies), no fear from Allied invasion.

Operationally, Axis had their base in Western Lybia (Tripolitania), Allies in Eastern Egypt. The short description of two years of campaigning was a see-saw battle for control of Eastern Lybia (Cyrenaica). June 1941 (the start of A&A:E) found Rommel on the Egyptian border besieging Tobruk and fending off British attacks. Rommel did not set a foot in Tunisia until after the loss of entire Lybia.

To have a pretty good grasp of the WW2 in North Africa and remove the main purpose and the principal battleground of the entire campaign requests solid ammount of "Designer's Notes" to explain.

Unlike games I mentioned above, the players got none during the design process of A&A:E and as it unfortunately turned out, A&A:E is the least played A&A game. Not because it isn't overly historical, but because it isn't fun. And in this particular case, more history would have yielded a game with more options, more decisions to make, in a word, more fun to play.

Drax


02-01-2004, 09:53 AM #33
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GROGnads – I do understand why you are spoiled. I must also acknowledge the new dimensions you bring to your personal gaming experiences with Axis & Allies. It sounds like you’re having more fun than should be legal in Aberdeen, Washington.

Patronium - I think I’ll be watching and participating in this site for quit some time. You ask what is my favorite country to play - Germany probably is. But this new version of A&A Russia may be becoming my favorite, not sure yet. Japan feels very different with this new version. You’ve got to protect your egg basket down in the Borneo region and dashing off to Moscow is less attractive. But that’s as far as I’ll go in that discussion.

I got pretty much what I wanted in the design and layout of the Pacific map. As you may know I worked closely with two Hasbro designers (Rob Daviau and Stephen Baker). How does it happen that I work with other designers? Easy… A company like Hasbro always assigns one or more in-house designers to oversee each project going through their pipeline. When A&A Europe came out and during the time it was being developed, I was the assigned in-house designer. I of course was also the creator of the game. So that worked out pretty well. When A&A Pacific was going through the pipeline, a year later, I was not working at Hasbro. I had moved to Hasbro Interactive (computer games). Rob and Stephen became the in-house designers of A&A Pacific. I was again the creator of the game but Rob and Stephen were going to be the designers/developers. In this kind of situation, someone has got to be in charge and ultimately responsible for the final product. That responsibility is given to an in-house designer. That person ends up making the final decisions and coordinates the efforts of all the other departments (art marketing etc.

When A&A Pacific was being produced, based on my original design of the game, I was simply a consultant and in no way the team leader. During the development of this new Axis & Allies the team leader was Mike Selinker. It was Mike, Rob and Stephen that ultimately had the final responsibilities on how these games ended up. I think in both cases my Axis & Allies babies have been well served. But that’s not to say that at times we didn’t argue like cats and dogs. Guess what… that was so healthy and the games benefited greatly from the process.

I’m a bit uncomfortable talking about Axis & Allies D-Day at this time. I’m going to let Avalon Hill take the lead on this. I will tell you that I like the game a lot. My original design has not been modified much but where it has been changed it has been changed for the better. The lead designer/developer of this game was once again Mike Selinker.

Future Axis & Allies projects are very much dependent on sales of these new A&A games. This is not a club but rather a business. If D-Day sales do well it would only make sense to following it up with similar type games. I could use your support!

Some good questions there Patronium thanks.

Drazen Kramaric – Wow, can I conclude from your comments that you’re not too happy about some of the design directions that have been taken for the various A&A games? I think in an earlier posting I suggested you whip out a Sharpie and arrange the map the way you want. The irony here is that you are probably right on almost every point you bring up. The problem here is that your points were not the only influences or priorities around during the design direction moments. I’m sure you will agree with me that not everyone can be happy about something as big as this project. As I also mentioned in an earlier posting – Your comments have been noted. The game and future versions of it will benefit because of your comments. Don’t make this a me-versus-them thing. Thanks.



02-01-2004, 10:20 AM #34
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
Location: "boogerland"
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Originally posted by Larry Harris:

Quote:
Patronium - I think I’ll be watching and participating in this site for quit some time. You ask what is my favorite country to play - Germany probably is. But this new version of A&A Russia may be becoming my favorite, not sure yet. Japan feels very different with this new version. You’ve got to protect your egg basket down in the Borneo region and dashing off to Moscow is less attractive. But that’s as far as I’ll go in that discussion.

great that AH has this board!! its great to have this insight!!

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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02-01-2004, 10:59 AM #35
Epicedion
Member
Location: US
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Quote:
Epicedion – THANKS FOR DROPPING BY.

That's pretty funny. Awesome. [img]smile.gif[/img]

(and no, I'm not being sarcastic)

--Epicedion



02-01-2004, 11:54 PM #36
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I have the late Mike Edwards of American Eagles in Seattle and his wonderful family, whom I've known since then, for tolerating my youthful enthusiasm

American Eagles was the greatest hobby store ever. I went there at least once a month in my youth in Seattle, feeding my habits for miniatures to paint and trains to build. Picked up my first copy of Squad Leader there too.

Glad we have something like that in common, Grog.

Mike



02-02-2004, 04:42 AM #37
Drax Kramer
Senior Member
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Harris:

I’m sure you will agree with me that not everyone can be happy about something as big as this project. As I also mentioned in an earlier posting – Your comments have been noted. The game and future versions of it will benefit because of your comments. Don’t make this a me-versus-them thing.

As I wrote previously, I had an opportunity to monitor and sometimes even actively participate in the design process of several WW2 games that are pretty hot on the market. All of them had parts or entire design process open to the gaming public. Of course, the design/develop team had the final word on every issue, but the point is that there was a two way process and thanks to the benefits of the internet, the people most interested in particular game had the opportunity to make the games they were about to play more fit to their wishes and interests. As far as I know, it worked for all three games.

My personal opinion is that WotC would have only benefited had they went into the A&A community sometime during the design process in addition to the playtests they organised. What we have here on this forum now is mostly an academic debate about this or that feature.

I know I am going to buy the game no matter what. My two sets of A&A, one A&A: E and A&A: P with both CD versions already made me an addict. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Drax



02-02-2004, 08:53 AM #38
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
Location: "boogerland"
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Quote:

I know I am going to buy the game no matter what. My two sets of A&A, one A&A: E and A&A: P with both CD versions already made me an addict.

true true, id go so far as to say, roll out that advanced dungeon axis and dragon allies game!!

cant wait to drop heavy fireballs on unsuspected dwarf armies !!

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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02-03-2004, 08:50 PM #39
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elbowmaster – my pleasure.

GROGnads – Waterloo was my first Avalon Hill game as well. I loved that game. I think I wore out the cardboard counters. I was fascinated by the composition of Napoleons army. I also remember conflict. I guess we all pretty much were the kids that bought model planes while the guys bought model cars. At this point I’ve got a pretty extensive collection of games myself. It sounds nothing like your collection however. Thanks for you comments.

Drazen Kramaric – The open design process you talk about sounds very interesting. It’s not at all designing by committee because ultimately the designer will simply use what he wants and disregard what does not interest him. None the less it ends up that he has probably had lots of input and can draw from that.

Unfortunately the company’s I have been designing for can not be so bold. Doing an open design forum like that could possibly lead to law suits and all kinds of problems.
I just wanted to mention this real problem and why this kind of open forum you mentioned doesn’t work for everybody.

I do hope you get Axis & Allies Revised and hope you eventually pick up A&A D-Day. It is my sincere hope and wish that both games bring hours of entertainment and pleasure to you. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for the Axis & Allis purchases you’ve made to date. Your interest and support is appreciated BIG TIME.

Elbowmster - Some interesting creative merging you’re talking about there… D&D/A&A. Makes me want to roll up a country…. I mean character.



02-04-2004, 09:39 AM #40
djfpfsf
Junior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetins Larry
It is a great honor to post on a forum you will read!

I greatly enjoy the games you have designed/helped design daily.

I'm not sure if you have read my other posts on this forum, but please do no take them negatively, I'm attempting constructive criticism. I think that letting the countries choose their technology and having heavy bombers be a choice is too powerful even if heavy bombers is only 2 dice. Once simple solution is just to make the cost of different technologies different as you see fit from playtesting. Then you don't have to worry that they aren't perfectly balanced, just make the weaker ones less per roll to develop. I would be honored if this idea were used in the game!

Otherwise, I really like almost all of the changes to the new version, and I will be sure to purchase it!
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:00 pm

02-05-2004, 10:23 PM #41
Darksideknight
Senior Member
Location: Columbia, MO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I’m a bit uncomfortable talking about Axis & Allies D-Day at this time. I’m going to let Avalon Hill take the lead on this.

Shoot, Avalon Hill should let you run around like a infantry..err chicken with it's head cut off discussing the D-day game. Are they worried it will get in the way of promoting Revised A&A?..I think thats what it's called. I know there is some time difference in the release dates but I hoped they would take the muzzle off game designers by now. How could the speculation of both games be a bad thing for sales? The more both games are hyped, logic tells me the better they would sell. If they are hyped at the same time with some overlap on release dates, I think that would only be better for both games.
Maybe I'm dead wrong in making these observations but, Larry can't hardly stand the knowledge of two games and only insight into one.

Thanks for your time -Jason [img]redface.gif[/img]
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02-07-2004, 09:06 AM #42
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GROGnads - You are becoming a regular at this particular posting. Your Oldenburg Grenadiers American Revolutionary War battle comments only drive home the fact that I still have much to learn in this world. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Like I once told you … you seem to be having more fun than is probably legal in Aberdeen.

Sean – My pleasure and I’m delighted you enjoy the games. I have read all your negative comments on this and other forums. Your attempts at constructive criticism have failed miserably. I have recently dispatched two professional hit men to your area. They may be visiting you any day now. Of course I’m joking. Not about the hit men but about your constructive criticism failing miserably. I take all criticism and comments about the games as constructive. Don’t get me wrong… I also like to hear good things as well.
You are not alone with your concerns about heavy bombers. Mike and the Avalon Hill group have spent an extra amount of time on just this subject. I think in the long run this will prove to not be an issue. I do think that we will be hearing more about heavy bombers on this and other forums, but based on our testing, I feel confident that they will not be a major problem in the long run. We have explored many different Weapon Development game mechanics. Even the one you suggested above (different cost per item). We have, for many reasons, ended up with the system we have. I hope you continue to like most of the changes that were made. A lot of work and effort went into them. We were trying to please and will continue to do so.

Darksideknight - I’m sure the “muzzle” will come off in do time. I have not actually been told to not discuss D-Day. I would simply rather let Avalon Hill take the lead on this. They did on A&A Revised. As a result we have Mikes’ weekly columns. Frankly I have not heard of any plans to do any columns on the design of Axis & Allies D-Day but there remains lots of time before its’ scheduled release in May.


02-07-2004, 05:57 PM #43
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry's right that we haven't yet moved forward with any plans for D-Day columns, just because we've been so focused on Revised. It's one of Wizards' biggest releases ever, and the flagship release for the new Avalon Hill, so a lot of effort is going into making sure it's done well.

It seems clear that a lot of people want columns on D-Day, though. Now that there's just five Revised columns left, that discussion will probably begin soon. Now's a good time to say what you'd like to see in a D-Day set of columns, should they occur.

Mike


02-08-2004, 01:06 AM #44
djfpfsf
Junior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I have recently dispatched two professional hit men to your area. They may be visiting you any day now. Of course I’m joking. Not about the hit men but about your constructive criticism failing miserably.

I'm confused,
So there will be hit men but I didn't fail at constructive criticism? I'm really scared now about those "hit men" (no sarcasm here)



02-08-2004, 09:14 AM #45
Darksideknight
Senior Member
Location: Columbia, MO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Sean – My pleasure and I’m delighted you enjoy the games. I have read all your negative comments on this and other forums. Your attempts at constructive criticism have failed miserably. I have recently dispatched two professional hit men to your area. They may be visiting you any day now. Of course I’m joking. Not about the hit men but about your constructive criticism failing miserably. I take all criticism and comments about the games as constructive.



Larry is this your staging ground for stand up comic? No offense to sean, but that was hilarious!!!! LMAO
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02-08-2004, 10:10 AM #46
baron
Member
Location: California
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by sean:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I have recently dispatched two professional hit men to your area. They may be visiting you any day now. Of course I’m joking. Not about the hit men but about your constructive criticism failing miserably.

I'm confused,
So there will be hit men but I didn't fail at constructive criticism? I'm really scared now about those "hit men" (no sarcasm here)</font>[/quote]I wouldn't worry, those hit men only hit on a two or less, so you have decent odds of survival.

Scott


02-09-2004, 09:38 AM #47
Fried_egg
Junior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow! I'm not sure how I missed this thread!

Greetings Larry. You may remember me from a few years ago. We talked on the phone and in the zone about the IB patch campaign. As you know, they never responded but everyone understands it probably wasn't economically feasible for them to make a patch. I still play the cd rom about once a week. Thanks again for such a wonderful game!

Anyway it is good to see that there is a new AA game in the works and I hope everything is well with you.

Have a good day,
Brian
(Fried_egg)



02-09-2004, 10:56 AM #48
The Rat King
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a few general questions for Mike and Larry, about Avalon Hill in general.

1) I'm curious about how Avalon Hill develops ideas for new games. Do the designers go off and design a game concept and then submit it for potential publication, or does Avalon Hill commision designers to develop specific games that they want to publish. Maybe its a combination of both.

2) How many design teams does Avalon Hill have? Is the company capable of developing 2 or 3 games at the same time, or is it basically the same team developing all of the new games?

3) How many copies does a game have to sell in order for it to be considered a success by Avalon Hill standards? I have noticed that Risk 2210, A&A Europe, A&A Pacific and Aquire are all still widely available at gaming stores. I assume this means that these games were successful enough to stay in production.

[ February 09, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: The Rat King ]



02-09-2004, 01:06 PM #49
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GROGnads – Thanks for clearing all that up for me. Good luck with your projects.

Sean – I am in all cases joking with you, but as Baron put it: those hit men only hit on a two or less, so you have decent odds of survival. NOW THAT’S STANDUP.

Fried –egg: Indeed I do remember that we spoke on the phone. Wow, that was a while ago. That CD you play with has certainly got it’s use. As you may know Atari is coming out with another Axis & Allies CD ROM game. It will be a RTS (real time strategy) game. It does not play like the boardgame. As far as RTS’s go this one should be top shelf. That should be happening in the Fall of this year. Good to see you on line again. As I remember it you were the President of Commanding General of some pretty good size club, right? I’m campaigning to generate some interest in developing an Axis & Allies CD based on this new A&A version. I would also like to see A&A Europe and A&A Pacific come out on CD.

The Rat King - Hello Rat King. I know nothing about the inner workings of Avalon Hill. Mike’s your man.


02-09-2004, 02:18 PM #50
Krieghund
A&A Boardgame Answer Guy
Location: Richmond, VA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That would be the WOTC version!
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:01 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Harris:

Elbowmaster – hello to you my good man. Your description of the RTS is not exactly what Atari had in mind.

Tell me, what is this “Jedko games” never heard of them. The only placement sheets I know of are the Nova sheets. Thrasher has kindly offered you his website’s copy of the “placement sheets” you requested. THANKS THRASHER.

I think it's ok to tell you that Infantry has not changed in this new version. There have been some changes that address the IPM thing but infantry being 1/1 is not one. Mike will be telling you more about that.



JEDCO, from what ive read, its the australian company who sold the nova game, uses all the same maps, control makers, etc as the nova version.

here is a link to show you the picture of the box

JEDCO BOX

typo on jedco

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[ February 11, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: elbowmaster ]
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:02 pm

02-11-2004, 01:22 PM #61
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
Location: "boogerland"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

actually, thrasher has no information on the set up of the chinese and french units...just a note that they exist...wonder who produced the markers then???

sounds like a mystery to solve...

thanks thrasher, im a big fan of your site..!!

-cheers

-elbowmaster
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02-11-2004, 11:19 PM #62
djfpfsf
Junior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry:
I understand, do you know who I can talk to? I have had problems since no one wants to use a program that isn't "official" even if it's better than the "official" one...



02-12-2004, 01:00 AM #63
patronium
Junior Member
Location: Adelaide, Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Larry Harris: "I'm considering writing a book about the game."

Please do! I'd buy it, I think it would be quite fascinating.


Quote:
Larry Harris: "I think it's ok to tell you that Infantry has not changed in this new version. There have been some changes that address the IPM thing but infantry being 1/1 is not one. Mike will be telling you more about that."

Cool, wonder what that they are...


Quote:
Larry Harris: "The plan is to release my Conquest of the Empire in 2005."

It says on the Eagle Games website that Conquest of the Empire is scheduled for a Fall 2004 release... So, are they just exaggerating or something?


Quote:
GROGnads: "Thanks to all you folks for those links to the various pictures of the A&A D-Day game"

Where??!! I don't see them, all I see is links for the Jedco and Nova versions of A&A...
You sure there are links to pictures of A&A D-Day?
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02-14-2004, 06:28 AM #64
axis_roll
Team AR Germany / *****
Location: SW suburbs of Chicago
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry,

As a WWII history nut, I fell in love with Axis & Allies when I first played the game in 1985.

I just wanted to thank you for creating a great game, one that has given me MANY hours of enjoyment in my lifetime.

I think a book about how A&A was created would be an interesting read.

Wishing you continued success in all your future endeavors!

Gratefully,
Axis_roll



02-14-2004, 08:25 AM #65
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Patronium – Thanks for your encouraging words. Between you and my publisher I could probably sell 3 copies. No, I stand corrected… my publisher wouldn’t buy a copy now would he?

As for Conquest of the Empire being in 2004 or 05, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. My money would be on 05.

Axis_roll – I think it was you that I had in mind when I designed Axis & Allies. A guy with an interest in World War II, and a guy that had the ability to transfer that interest over onto a world map. You’re probably a very “Visual” type of person. Helped by themed playing pieces – tanks, infantry etc, you probably recreated the major events of the war. You probably also did a lot of “What-if’” scenarios. You probably also took great pleasure when you could put you theories to the test by competing against other players who had a shared interest. I’ll bet there was much more going on in your mind then actually happening on the board.

World War II, what an amazing event. What an amazing time.

Let me thank you Axis-roll for your – “thank you”.



02-14-2004, 09:33 AM #66
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Check those links out under THIS A&A section with the 'What do you want in D-Day Articles?' more than half way down. There are 3 photos of them, #27, #28, & #29.

Keep in mind that those are playtest boards, and nowhere near final. They look rather different now. Plus, there aren't any of the new pieces in those photos.

Mike


02-14-2004, 11:44 AM #67
Darksideknight
Senior Member
Location: Columbia, MO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the heads up Mike!

-Jason
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02-16-2004, 12:56 PM #68
Carico67
Senior Member
Location: Milford, MA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry and Mike,

First off, once again, many thanks for moving the game onto new horizons with the upcoming games (and Atari software)! Like many that have posted prior, I've been on a mission to help insure that 20 years from now the next generation will still have the abilty to not only play A&A face-to-face, but online, as your creations have brought endless hours of enjoyment to SO many. Any chance one, or both, of you will be in attendance at GENCON Indy this upcoming year? I believe Greg Smorey is in the process of deciding which games he'll be able to handle from a time perspective situation. (To those not familiar with Greg or GENCON, he holds several 32 or 64 single-elimination man/team events for AA, AAE, AAP). I realize your busy, but you may want to contact him as well (he's really carried and held aloft the A&A flag at GENCON and Origins for years), if you already have not. He's in a time dilemna to get all the games in, and would likely be happy to direct it in a way to help you guys if asked.

Larry, hope to catch you at the airport again, like I did several years ago, or see you at the Masters tables to thank you personally for all you continue to do. Also, if you need playtesters, I could give you guys a list of onlines most diverse expert players guys, just ask...

Chris Collins
Carico67@hotmail.com
BOP Cabinet (like ButchOHare) Larry if you need contacts there let me know.
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02-16-2004, 03:47 PM #69
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been to 20 straight Gen Cons in the U.S., so I see no reason for that to change this year. See you there, Chris.

Mike



02-16-2004, 06:06 PM #70
Drewcooter
Member
Location: MPLS, MN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike,

You said "New Pieces" as in plural (D-Day). Have they redone the units, for example a P-51 for the US? Or are you just talking about the blockhouse, and going with the molds from A&AE and A&AP?
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Post by elbowmaster » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:03 pm

02-16-2004, 06:37 PM #71
Muddog
Member
Location: Ohio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry and Mike, do you have any plans to do anything at Origins and Columbus?



02-16-2004, 07:26 PM #72
Mike Selinker
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I expect to be at Origins as well. Nothing's certain yet, but I haven't missed many of those either.

Mike



02-16-2004, 08:37 PM #73
ButchOHare1
Senior Member
Location: Chicago, IL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Larry Harris
Quote:
Axis_roll – I think it was you that I had in mind when I designed Axis & Allies. A guy with an interest in World War II, and a guy that had the ability to transfer that interest over onto a world map. You’re probably a very “Visual” type of person. Helped by themed playing pieces – tanks, infantry etc, you probably recreated the major events of the war. You probably also did a lot of “What-if’” scenarios.

Very perceptive for only reading one post! I met Axis_Roll online and this game has made us friends. I have played at his house 6 times. He has all the diecast panzer sherman and t-34 tanks painted camouflage not to mention the diecast battleships for every nation. He starts the game with the Battle of Midway to give USA a better Pacific option.

Face to face games we will play his expansion rules but online Axis_Roll is known as the great quoter of the rule book! A very good player too!
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02-17-2004, 07:02 AM #74
Dezertred
Junior Member
Location: Phoenix
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry,

Hi, I think it’s cool that you get on these boards to talk with the fans of your game. I like most of the people here stated playing as a kid and got my first game when I was about 14. Just in the last couple years I discovered how popular Axis and Allies is on the internet and I decided to try to find some other people to play face to face with. After three years of soliciting on the net I have a group of about15 friends that get together regularly to play Axis and Allies and some expansions. I have enlarged maps that we play on for 10 or 12-hour games. I have even set up games for people who are visiting from out of town that I have met on line.

I can tell you that all of us eagerly anticipate the release of this new version. If you are ever in Phoenix look me up at Axisandallies.org I post as dezrtfish there. We could use a boost in the talent level at a game. Also if you get a chance I am sure the guys at axisandallies.org would love it if you would drop a line.

Thanks,
Red
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02-20-2004, 09:44 AM #75
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carico67 -
Good to hear from you. I like your stated mission – A&A revision 2024!
At this point I have no idea about GENCON. I’ll keep you posted. Give my regards to Greg Smorey. Will this years' playoffs be with the new or old A&A Game? Greg has been doing some great things over the years. A few years ago I made sure Hasbro was informed about his efforts and I’ll make sure I mention him when talking to the right people at AH. I hope they support his efforts. I will be at the Gama trade show in Vegas this coming March. I will be giving a seminar about the new A&A game. I’ll be discussing the revisions to the new game.

So that was you at the airport that day… I remember that moment pretty well. You were walking around with an Axis & Allies game under your arm. Your playing pieces were also hand painted. As for play testers – will that’s really out of my hands. AH has its’ own system for that. Take care Chris. And thanks for all you have done for Axis & Allies.

Muddog
I have no plans at this time. That’s not to say I will not be at Origins – just not sure at this time. Thanks for asking. As mentioned above, I will be at the Gama trade show in Vegas this coming March (next month).

ButchOHare1
Thanks Butch. I’m not all that perceptive. Having not had the honor of meeting Axis_Roll does not rule out my knowing pretty much what some of his interest are. I’m sure you too share many of these same interest as do I.

Dezertred
You finally got your group of players and no less than 15! That makes for a pretty big club. Good job. I’m interested in knowing to what size you have enlarged your maps? I feel confident that the new version of the game will meet and maybe surpass the expectations of your group. There maybe some resistance to the new game, not so much because there is anything wrong with it but because it’s sometimes hard to leave the old behind. That old “comfort zone” thing.

I have been to Phoenix a couple of time and feel in love with the place. You’re a lucky guy living there. I’ll be visiting Axisandallies.org later on today. Thanks for you interest in Axis & Allies and for organizing it in your area.



02-23-2004, 06:38 AM #76
Dezertred
Junior Member
Location: Phoenix
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry,

I enlarged the a couple of maps to 36" x about 60". I cut the blow up boxes off because they weren't needed any more. Germany is about the size of my fist now [img]smile.gif[/img] They're actualy impractical for most games, but for big group games they give the feel of grand strategy. My most popular map is a modified Zeno games World at War 1939 map, including China and France.

I realy don't see there being that much resistance to the new Game. I have been reading different developement ideas on the net for a few years now, and it seems from what I have seen that you guys have been paying attention. I realy like the changes I have seen so far. I for one will be getting my copy as soon as possible. It will go right beside the three copies of the original I already have.
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02-24-2004, 09:01 AM #77
Larry Harris
Location: North Shore - Boston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like the idea of using an enlarged map. This could be particularly interesting with a full contingent of players

I’m hoping there will not be a lot of resistance to the new game. After all, the entire effort was to correct and change unpopular aspects of the old game. The problem with newness however is that it sometimes has the effect of forcing people out of their comfort zone.

That is a big collection of Axis & Allies games you’ve got there. I thank you for your support.



02-24-2004, 09:14 AM #78
thrasher
Senior Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

actually, thrasher has no information on the set up of the chinese and french units...just a note that they exist...wonder who produced the markers then???

I was told: "There are Chinese and French counters. But the OB was never released."

OB = order of battle = initial setup

So, I guess the already created the counters and then dropped the whole project... Maybe some 'early' rules for China and France existed... I don't know...

thrasher,
http://axisandallies.TK



02-24-2004, 09:40 AM #79
elbowmaster
ELBOW{M}E{M}BER
Location: "boogerland"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I like the idea of using an enlarged map. This could be particularly interesting with a full contingent of players

for board gaming, the larger maps are the way to go. i remember when axis and allies 1st came out. and i remember the complaints of "the board is too small." thus i created the traditional MB aa map out of a department of defense topographic map, then double laminating them for the sloppy drinkers that i was gaming with. talk about turning heads at conventions.

i think the revised addition is great!

IMHO, AH missed the boat on what eagle games has done...make a LARGE gameboard, regardless the size of the box. this "not smaller" stuff is a disappointment for me, being the visual person i am. i have also heard on how the old ww2 movies war room inspired part of this game. but it would look ridiculous on the average aa board.

i cant imagine it digging too much into profits with a larger board if it had been considered from the beginning, perhaps it was??? and not chosen. i am planning on getting the game regardless. and no, the maps i make are not for the driveway, though i could make one that size if i wanted.

ive really only posted the link to my website to inspire people who "get into it" like i do. ive made maps for dozens of people all over the world.

i would like to offer larry and mike one of my maps of any version you would like for me to hand make for you, perhaps to inspire, and to prove, gaming on a larger map is better.

if interested, email me elbowsanchez@elbowmaster.com

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[ February 24, 2004, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: elbowmaster ]
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02-24-2004, 04:14 PM #80
dadof5
Junior Member
Location: Iowa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elbowmaster, I spoke with Larry and Mike and they said they could not ethically accept a map from you and that you should instead send it to me.

Just kidding, I checked out your site, very impressive. Will you be making a map after the revised edition is released that includes the changes?
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