Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

This game, measuring 35”x32” is compatible with the yet to be released Axis & Allies Europe 1940 game (coming in August 2010). This game includes newly introduced units such as mechanized infantry and tactical bombers.
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Imperious leader
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Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by Imperious leader » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:41 pm

These numbers are based on realistic forces for June 1940 and based on these ratios:

Land:
5 infantry divisions = 1 unit
2 Armor Divisions = 1 unit
3 Motorized Divisions/ Mechanized = 1 unit
Artillery (subjective based on level of artillery in infantry and other factors)

Sea:
3 Battleships = 1 unit
4 Carriers = 1 unit
10 Cruisers = 1 unit
20 Destroyers = 1 unit
30 submarines = 1 unit
2,000,000 Gross Tons of Merchant Shipping ( rounded up) = 1 Unit

Air:
200-250 Front line Fighters = 1 unit
200-250 Front line Fighter- Bombers= 1 unit
450-500 Front line Bombers= 1 unit




Germany:
26 infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mech, 4 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 bombers, 2 tactical bombers
1 BB, 2 CA, 2 DD, 8 SS, 2 AP

Italy:
15 infantry, 1 tank, 2 mech, 2 artillery, 2 bombers, 2 fighters (1 in Italian East Africa), 1 tactical bomber.
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 5 SS, 1 AP

Japan:
10 infantry, 1 mech, 2 artillery ( from this in China, 6 inf) also, 2 Manchuria, 1 Japan)
3 BB,3 CV, 3 CA, 5 DD, 2 SS, 3 AP Land Based air: 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber. Sea Based air: 3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers

Romania:
5 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

Finland:
5 infantry, 1 artillery

Hungary:
5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank

Bulgaria:
3 infantry, 1 artillery, ( they should have 1 fighter as they had 300 fighters at end of 1940)

Sweden:
4 Infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

Greece:
3 Infantry, 1 AP

Argentina:
4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 CA

Brazil:
4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AP

Iraq:
2 Infantry

France:
16 infantry, 6 mech, 3 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber (air force was not ready and mostly destroyed by June 1940)
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 3 SS, 1 AP

United Kingdom: Global
6 infantry, 3 mech, 1 tank, 2 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 bombers, 1 tactical bomber
5 BB, 1 CV, 4 CA, 10 DD, 2 SS, 8 AP

BEF:
1 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery

ANZAC:
1 infantry, 1 tank, 1 DD, 1 AP ( Australian)

Canada:
1 infantry, 1 DD, 1 AP

India:
2 infantry, 1 tank

Africa:
1 infantry

South Africa:
1 Infantry


Soviet Union:
25 infantry, 4 tanks, 4 mech, 5 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber ( rated Soviets lower due to huge issues on quality and doctrine, but on paper they had the largest air force easily)
1 BB, 3 DD, 7 SS, 2 AP ( on the Manchurian border:6 Infantry, 2 Mech, 2 artillery 1 tanks, 1 fighter)


United States:
4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery. Sea Based air: 2 fighters 1 tactical bomber Land Based air: 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber
4 BB,2 CV, 4 CA, 5 DD, 4 SS, 4 AP

China:
11 infantry, 1 artillery


Chile:
3 Infantry

Spain:
6 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 AP

Turkey:
5 Infantry, 1 armor, 2 artillery, 1 DD


Dutch:
1 DD
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

WILD BILL
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Re: Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by WILD BILL » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:20 pm

In response to IL trying to get Larry to totally re-wight the starting set up for the global game that is not even out yet.
Imperious leader wrote: I had posted the historical setup in a different thread yesterday. ( minus locations of ports, AB and factories)
IL, you know what your asking is not going to happen. Larry is not going to scrap the global set up in favor of what you think it should be. Most people that play AA games play to have fun w/friends or family. Its nice if you get a little taste of history, but most of us don't do it for a history lesson. We play to have a good time, and hope things are balanced with in reason for playability. Where units start (or their quantity) are not as important as how they react with in the game. I would rather have a set up based loosely on what was there historically, then a set up that was closer, but didn't play well. I'm not saying what you came up with through your research wouldn't work, but I enjoy playing Larry's games.

This is a unique opportunity to get a glance into the head of a game designer that we all have a very high respect for (including yourself). He is looking for just minor changes to the Pac side to make Pac40 more playable as a stand alone game (mostly for J1 attack), while not having an adverse effect on global.

Suggesting a complete overhaul at this time is not reasonable. I think that a better approach would be to work with him on an other set up that is based more historically. He has been very approachable. If you present it right you could spearhead such a project. I think you should wait a few months, (at least 6 months) for the dust to clear from the Europe release. Right now no one is interested in such a project (that's why not one person has responded to you post from yesterday). I for one would be very interested in another set up at a later date, and it would be awesome to get Larry's endorsement, so don't piss him off (please) :)

Edit: I know this post will most likely be deleted as well, as it should because it also clouds this existing tread. That's why I copied and pasted it to IL's : Revised Global 1940 starting force pool where this discussion should continue

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Re: Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by Imperious leader » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:16 am

In response to IL trying to get Larry to totally re-wight the starting set up for the global game that is not even out yet.
You missed my point. I am not trying to do anything of the sort. This setup is for people who want a realistic setup based on the positions of forces in Pacific June 1940. Its not complete nor any of the rules that will support the effort. The point made in another thread was to point out that future games should start with my approach and then worry about balance. The problem was the pieces are too forward positions and this led to alot of the influence for Japan to attack early. It is a secondary issue that Japan got too many pieces. If they were further back where they historically where, we would not be in this position.

However, it is provided so players can see what it should look like and play it out.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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TMTM
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Re: Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by TMTM » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:14 pm

Hey IL! I like all your input.. cool work on the alt setup.. when I first started reading your post some 5 yrs ago.. I didn't know what to think about you.. people do misread you.. once we get to know you.. a few words come to mind... you've got passion for the game and world war II and aren't afraid to state it very boldly. I look forward to your complete alt setup with rules etc.. not to replace or put down the original work but to give us something alternative to play.. why not? Some people feel like you've step on their toes.. thats not the case.

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Re: Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by Imperious leader » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:44 pm

My confidence is sometimes offsetting to people and thats just fine. It would never enter into any influence of what i think is best and I can only produce and represent the facts as i find them. The exact set up is really a larger project to be completed once AAE40 is released.

The first action was to find the truth about what each nation has based on these ratios.
The second act is to determine the locations of these forces as of June 1940.
The third act is is too view the final disposition of forces and address game balancing concerns from playtest.

Of course down the road accurate IPC data will need to be researched and redistribution of IPC will follow and a new map file will be made.

KISS will be my policy in all things, with some new ideas that are going to "look" like something you might expect from a version of AA that is more historical because i understand the majority of people favor a little less "broad-strokes of history" and prefer more meat.

examples:

Vichy rules ( as opposed to none in the design)
New techs ( radar? hello?)
victory conditions ( national victory conditions)
changes in neutral rules ( not this attack one neutral and 30 others are at war with you thing)
political rules ( like Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact)

This will take a long time to develop but will be done.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

Caractacus
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Re: Revised Global 1940 starting force pool

Post by Caractacus » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:29 pm

This is exactly what I did with my group of players. Our ratios are the same as yours in most areas, and different in a few.

Your points are good, and the order of events (Order Of Battle, location of forces and then look at game balance) is exactly what we did.

We are in playtesting after the third round of revisions over about four years...

I very much look forward to seeing what you produce!
Caractacus.

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