What would you change...

Naval strategy and wise economic moves are both critical in waging this far-flung war across an entire hemisphere. To the familiar elements from Axis & Allies, Axis & Allies: Pacific adds convoys, island air and naval bases, kamikazes, destroyers, and the Chinese army.
obiwanjohn
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by obiwanjohn » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:10 am

Krieghund wrote:This is a fairly typical response for rookie players. After several more plays I think you'll find that when played optimally Japan can make significant gains in the first two turns, causing the Allies to use most of their early income for defense rather than offense. Veteran players find the game to actually be skewed in favor of the Axis.
I've read that. Yet I don't see it. What is the strategy for Japan?

Even so, the IPC's make for an unbalanced game.

User avatar
Krieghund
Posts: 2667
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:18 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Post by Krieghund » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:04 am

If you really want to ruin all the fun of figuring this out on your own, Saburo Sakai has created a series of strategy articles that will tell you pretty much everything you need to know. They can be found here. Personally, I don't like strategy articles. I like to learn from experience, but to each his own!
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

obiwanjohn
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by obiwanjohn » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:46 am

Krieghund wrote:If you really want to ruin all the fun of figuring this out on your own, Saburo Sakai has created a series of strategy articles that will tell you pretty much everything you need to know. They can be found here. Personally, I don't like strategy articles. I like to learn from experience, but to each his own!
The main point I'm trying to make is the huge difference in IPC's. It makes for an unbalanced game. I can't see myself playing this game again with this imbalance.

If Japan must win by the 4th turn or whatever the magic formula is, then winning by victory points is impossible; unless you're playing a chimp.

You say with beginners the Allies always win and with experienced players Japan always wins. How is that good or make anyone want to play this game?

User avatar
Krieghund
Posts: 2667
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:18 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Post by Krieghund » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:00 pm

I never said that anyone always wins, just that Japan has an advantage. This can easily be fixed by a few minor tweaks if it becomes a problem.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

obiwanjohn
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by obiwanjohn » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:45 pm

Krieghund wrote:I never said that anyone always wins, just that Japan has an advantage. This can easily be fixed by a few minor tweaks if it becomes a problem.
I'll probably give it another go at some point. I'm obviously missing the Japan strategy. But, I would have preferred the game be structured a bit differently.

Thanks for your posts.

xxstefanx
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:46 am
Location: Hamburg

Post by xxstefanx » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:09 pm

As Krieghund already explained, if you are missing the Japanese strategy there is Saburo to help! :wink:

But as he also said: That might spoil the fun!

AAP is the best A&A to my taste and I love it!
(Harry? Do you hear me? Deluxe Edition plz!)

(Saburo's strategies even left some little room for optimizing! :evil: )

Have fun - AAP will deliver!

frog
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:58 pm

Re: What would you change...

Post by frog » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:03 am

Larry,

Pacific has by far been my favorite game you have made. I can’t count the games I’ve played at Origins/Gen con/ and Spring Gathering./FLGS/school. Even if Yoper doesn’t like to play, it’s great.

I am very excited to see you are working on a combined Europe and Pacific. I did just that a few years ago and have played it extensively. I teach Junior High and run 2 game clubs where we play A&A (all versions) extensively. We even have people drive more than an hour every Friday to play A&A at our local store.

First I hope you are reading this and here are some things that work well in Pacific that I hope stay in some form.

1) Multiple victory conditions. ( A MUST) I have read this post about making it VP only, however that will make the game stale. It is nice not to have the same strategy every time you play a game. Being able to capture multiple capitals in different directions, or VP’s makes this game have completely different strategies and every game is then different.
2) VP per round. It makes every round count. This is important to prevent tournaments turning into a stacking fest and attacking only in the last round of time expiration.
3) Sub Stalling. I have to say that it is nice to force combat rather than just ignore a combat unit.
4) Convoys and convoy zones- This goes for Europe too. I like the convoy boxes of Europe and convoy routes of islands in Pacific. This is a must for anyone who enjoys Pacific and Europe.
5) Escorts/bombing raids.- Keep fighters who defend and escorts, it really makes sense.
6) Japans first turn surprise- Again it adds to Japans unique abilities that makes the game set apart from other versions.
7) NO Tech. I like that it makes the game less “Luck” and more strategy. When one side gets lucky tech rolls and the other doesn’t early on, the game is to unbalanced. LEAVE IT OUT or an Option.
8) Kamikazes- You just can’t leave this out.
9) Shore bombardment – allow all ships that can bombard to bombard.



Now some things I would like to suggest-

1) IPC’s at “large” This means like in Europe give each side 12 or so IPC’s to buy and set out as they please in addition to the original set up.
2) Split IPC’s in the combined game - make nations split their IPC’s among factories. Like you did for Australia/India in Pacific. Keep this and do it for America also. So many IPC’ for Eastern U.S. and so many for Western U.S.
3) No unlimited builds- You shouldn’t skip one turn and build nothing, then on another turn build 30 units in one place. There should be the limited build factor per factory
4) Change cost factors to equal AA 50. Many of us are getting confused with units costing different amounts in so many different versions.
5) Make China more playable. It works OK in the current Pacific, but China doesn’t work at all in AA 50. I made them a minor player under the US control. They should be able to use US fighters brought over and become their units, or even an artillery or two? Not being allowed to ever leave the zones isn’t working well. I am not sure to incorporate them but they need a little more work to make it better. Maybe a 7th player? Very low Ipc’s but something?
6) PLEASE, PLEASE, make Italy in the Europe version. Can’t tell you how many people enjoy having a third Axis player. It also adds some playability with turn order for both defense and offense.
7) Unique Italian sculpts- Not just German reprints? Maybe??
8) National advantages for optional play. We always let “newbie’s” have national advantages while we don’t use them. Gives them a better chance without altering the game to much.



Lastly, about 15 of us play every Friday night, we would more than happy to Playtest for you!!!!!!!!

I’m sure I will think of more latter. Now IL can complain about all my ideas.

User avatar
Larry
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:44 am

Re: What would you change...

Post by Larry » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:35 pm

Love you Frog… come over here and let me give you a kiss.

No… seriously, thanks for all you do. I hope to bump into you again this year at Gencon (I think I met you at Gencon – No?) Yeah you were the good looking one.

I love Pacific too. Let me try to answer your questions.

Multiple victory conditions – Nope, not VPs only. This must be one of those misunderstanding that everyone is always talking about. I never said that.
The fact is, Japan loses the game only by be occupied. Japan wins the game by acquiring 6 of the 8 VCs on the board.

No VP per round…

Sub stalling… As in Anniversary you can either pass through a sub or attack it if you have a DD.

There are convoy zones. They are a bit different from any prior system. I’ll be talking about them in time.

There are fighter escorts and interceptors during bombing raids.

Surprise… there is no surprise. The game starts 19 months before the historical Pearl Harbor date. The Japanese would have to sneak up realllllly slow for that to happen. With the game starting in 1940 there is not even a fleet based at Pearl yet. That didn’t happen until I think some time in May ’41. Nonetheless, at some point there probably will be an attack on Pear Harbor. The US has to, for strategical and logical reasons, move their fleet to Hawaii. Now all you have to do is find somebody to play with that has no knowledge of the fact that there was a Pearl Harbor attack. Boy, will they be surprised!

As for Tech… Weapon technology will only occur in the uber game (combined Europe and Pacific.

Of course there will be kamikazes – how could you have any fun if there weren’t any kamikazes… It’s a laugh a minute…

Cruisers and Battleships can bombard… The number of ships capable of bombarding cannot exceed the number of ground units attacking. I guess you want unlimited bombardment, right?

Aaah NAs… I don’t know yet. They don’t appear in the Pacific game – that’s for sure. Perhaps they will be in the uber game. Yeah, I think they will. I haven’t crossed that bridge yet.

IPC’s at large. Nope

Split IPCs in the combined game - this will be the case.

There will be limited builds per factory… Actually there will be two types (or sizes) of factories. Major – can produce 10 units per turn minus any damage they have received. Minor – can build 3 units per turn minus damage. Factories (Industrial Complexes) cannot be built on islands (Japan and Australian exceptions). You will not be building many Major factories – they cost 30 IPCs each. Minor ICs cost 12. They each have their own AA gun defense systems built in. A minor IC can only be build on a territory with an IPC offering of 2 or more… a major requires 3 or more.

Italy is a powerhouse in AAE40…

Thanks for the Playtest offer. I’ve got that covered. If I’m going to get anything out of it I’ve got to keep it close and tight. Sorry. I know of several groups that are more than excellent but it turns out to be rather non-productive when everything is done via email. It’s a pain for me.

I have opened up my thinking a bit more here on the web. I’m getting wonderful feed back. Your above list of issues and questions are an example of that.

I hope this has been helpful to you

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest