On a players collect income phase, they place tokens being shipped from, point A to point B, in sea zones with convoy symbols. For example: UK collect income phase, they place 7 IPC chips, with a unit roundel on top of them in sz109. They would also place a convoy arrow, a roundel with an arrow on it, in sz109 with the arrow pointing away from from shoreline and pointing towards the Atlantic Ocean. This clearly shows that this is “outbound” IPC. They also place an equal amount if IPC chips, in this case 7, into sz109 with a UK roundel on it and with a convoy arrow, with the arrow pointing towards the UK shore line, this show this is 7 IPC of inbound convoy. Also, if the UK player is choosing to send all of their IPC from Africa to the UK IC, they would place a stack of 13 IPC into any SZ that has a convoy symbol in it that touches any part of the African coast. For example they could place all 13 IPC in sz82, or they could split those 13 IPC between sea zones 70, 71, 72, 82 and or 98; their choice. However they choose to ship that IPC “out” they do that, and then they also have to show it “inbound” in sz109 (or119…or both)..in this example we will simply say they send it all into sz109. So, now in sz109 they have two stacks of IPC, one stack of 7 and one stack of 13. This shows that in sz 109 they are receiving 20 IPC. If the axis, on their conduct combat phase can get into sz106, the most the UK can be raided for is 7 IPC. If the axis, on their combat move can get into sz82 (we will say for this example) they can raid the UK for a max of 13 IPC. Let’s say Italy somehow gets into sz109 the most they could raid the UK for is 20 IPC.
For this example, we will say they get into sz109, they do a convoy raid and hit for lets say 8 IPC. When they hit, the UK must remove 8 IPC from sz109 AND they must remove 8 IPC from inbound locations. We will say they remove 7 from sz106 and they remove 1 from sz82 AND they put back 8 IPC from their IPC they collected.
Now, on Germanys turn they manage to get into sz109 and also into sz106. Sz 106 has no IPC chips in it now so they cannot raid that sz. And in sz109 they are only able to remove a max of 12 IPC.
In this way, there is a max cap of what can be damaged in a single round, controlled and clearly shown by the IPCs in each inbound or outbound convoy zone.
With this type of convoy system, the UK, as they should, will fear convoy raids not Italy because Italy will no longer need to ship any IPC home from overseas.
While I have not play tested this, it sounds very simple…dare I say KISS.
It mimics how IPC would need to be shipped while capping what can be damaged and while giving players the choice of what to ship and from where and to where to ship it. The UK, if they wanted to avoid being convoy raided could simply not ship IPC to the UK. Japan could do the same thing. BUT if they chose to not ship IPC they would be stuck building units in places other than their home islands. For example, if the UK did not send the 7 IPC from Canada to the UK, they would be stuck producing 7 IPC out of Canada. If they choose NOT to build it, they keep the IPC but they will also need to keep that IPC in Canada buy putting IPC chips at the IC in Canada. Then next round they would have the 7 IPC they collect from Canada plus any IPC they save from last round in Canada to build from Canada the next round.
Again, it seems simple to me. will it play out simply? I don’t know.
Yavid wrote:I agree but allowing the US, UK, Anzac, and Russia hit the same convoy zone, say off of Java, instead of the max 4 damage for the turn then it turns into a max of 4 for each nation. Meaning max of 16. The situation is worse for Germany and Italy who has trouble keeping a navy to do the sub hitting.
it would still only be a max of 4 with the use of IPC chips.
example, Japan, on their collect income phase would place 4 chips with a roundel and a convoy arrow showing this as outbound. they could then choose its inbound location, we will say sz6.
if the USA hits sz106 for 4 ipc, the japs remove 4 ipc from their hand, 4 chips from sz6 and 4 chips from around java. then, on Anzac turn if they try to raid java sz, there is no ipc there to raid. it was sunk off the coast of japan on the usa turn.
capped at 4 damage just like it is now but the Japs and the allies have a more cant and mouse game going on between when and where and how IPC are shipped, hunted and sunk.
Yavid wrote:That's exactly what I was starting to get at with the damage counters and it not being straight out of pocket
I believe the damage done would need to be straight out of pocket because unlike facilities, buildings that can get damaged, building that use IPC to produce units, convoys in their simplest form are IPC coming from the ground as raw materials and stuff that gets converted into units at the ICs, so its a product so to speak that when "damaged" is gone...nothing to repair, its simply gone.
yes, convoys have ships moving the IPC but those IPC are presumed as being built and paid for with IPC that is not part of the IPC used for creating the military units (imo).
but anyway, interesting talk, but I was hoping to get more input from others if they the current rules were fair play, what they thought of convoy raids...attack or something else.
these ideas for changing the convoy disruption rules (convoy raids) are fun to think about but doubt I will get other in our group to play test them, we stick to the official rules just incase new players show up to a game night, this way those new players come to game a game they know...the one they bought.
anyway, again, cool and fun to talk about.
I think it would be cool if a powers over seas imports and incoming lend lease (convoys) were included as part of their over all income each turn (like an NO bonus), and not an abstraction. Powers that relied on convoys would of coarse have more of their income exposed to raiding. I think you could award convoy income at the beginning of a powers turn (before purchase units), rather then the end, and deduct any raids from it (see later).
In G40 say for example if you are talking about the UK, bump their income to 35 IPCs in total income, but have 15 ipc of that directly linked to convoys, and 20 IPCs obtained from territory value (yea would take some map changes, and ratio could be different). The UK would have multiple convoy symbols in various sz's in the Atlantic (including mid Atlantic) with a value similar to territories adding up to 15 IPCs (2-4 IPCs each?). As the individual UK convoy zones are raided on the attackers turn(s) you place marker/chips in zones w/successful attacks, and deduct those markers on the UKs turn (all zones have set limits). On the UKs turn you could award convoy income at the beginning of their turn (before purchase units) saying these materials got to shore safely and they get to spend it immediately. You of coarse would deduct any raids (markers) from UKs 15 IPC convoy income at that time.
If you wanted to you could offer more UK convoy zones totaling say 25 IPCs, but still cap the the raiding done per UK turn at 15 IPCs max. This would allow the raiding parties more access points, but still cap damage at 15 IPC max raiding. I would also like to see a 1:1 ratio for destroyers finding subs to allow for more German subs to survive, but that is another story.
It would be cool to see some Russian convoy zones between UK and Archangel, and maybe off Persia to do lend lease raids (even Amur sz linked to NAP, with some Russian Siberian territories reduced to zero to off set).
I know this would take some changes to the map, and isn't the best solution because of that, but its on my wish list lol.
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