Alpha+.2

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
Eagle
Posts: 665
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Location: Norway

Re: Alpha+.2

Post by Eagle » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:53 am

Cmnd Jenny got a point, fast play.

Historically the economic value of a territory always was halfed after an enemy occupation. To simulate this, a 2 IPC territory should be worth 1 IPC when occupied. Of course this will ruin fast gameplay and make a game last like 50 + turns to finish.

Jenny's suggestion is to let the enemy use a major factory on occupied and scorched soil, wich in many cases make a factory more effective with an enemy owner. USA will be able to build 10 expensive units in occupied Rome, while Italy only could make like 3 or 4 cheap units there, in their own capital. This will be very contra historical.

However, since this game dont have any way to move units fast from A to B, like a Railway move from IC to IC, or Ferry move from port to port, or Airborne move from Airbase to Airbase, then it is a good idea to use Major IC's on enemy ground as some kind of staging points. The 10 Bombers that suddenly turn up in Moscow the very next turn after it was occupied, are not actually build there by Russian POW's in factories just bombed to ruins, but they are manufactured other places and just turn up in Moscow by some magical strategical movement phase, made to streamline the playability.

Caractacus
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Location: Turku, Finland

Re: Alpha+.2

Post by Caractacus » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:20 am

Yeah, this is where game-play reasoning departs by too great a margin from the historical realities. I'll give it a miss myself.

Regarding Moscow's construction vs Leningrad - the Moscow space on the board probably includes quite a large land area as well as a large population, so I would still rate it greater than Leningrad. That said, both should probably be Majors. And India should be a Minor, but there you go - game-play trumps historicity in many areas in a game this size, it's just a question of degree...
Caractacus.

WILD BILL
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Re: Alpha+.2

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:51 am

You know some ppl play to where you can't ever build in an enemy IC (or tt), it's just removed.

If the Germans Sea lion, I think holding England should be a nightmare. US/Canada would have been storming in (near future), and the Germans didn't have the means to invade the Island Kingdom, much less hold it historically. The best case scenario for the Germans would have been to sue for peace, and have England lay down arms, but the game doesn't recognize this. I like London becoming a minor (that Ger can't upgrade) to show the logistic problems that the Germans would face.

W/Moscow there are a couple tt's to the south that you can erect minors if you want more production (faster moving units). Moscow it surrounded by one IPC tt's so the Germans can't build an IC right next to the Russian capital before or after the assault IMO. If Germany takes it, but Russia has a reserve force to retake it in a couple rounds (or the allies have a lib force already heading that way) that's part of the game, deal with it. Normally if the Germans have Moscow, its Leningrad that is in immediate threat to the axis. It could become US if Germany took it (but at least the US can't upgrade Len to a major). Let the Germans see how it feels to choose between def Len & Moscow, just like the Russians do. If the allies are in Russia, they're probably not hitting the French coast to hard.

As for Rome, there are several other tt's w/IC that boarder the Med, and Italy itself can only build 3 units there (starts as a minor), so why should the US be able to increase production there (did they bring factories and worker with them)? I think the US should have to keep the tpt chain going from E US. The way I look at it is the captured IC (now a minor), allow you to stage units through air drops, and other logistics which is limited. Its not like your actually building units in that tt using factories or man power there.

This is just my 2 cents, keep things as they are. If Moscow or London fall it shouldn't be game over IMO unless they are both gone, same w/Rome. Now if Tokyo, or Berlin are taken, and the axis don't have the ability to get them back, then just call it (you don't need to build majors there). I also think you should inherit these captured ICs (and bases) damaged (scorched earth). The original owner rolls a dice for each facility when he looses it, and that much damage is added under it (capped at 6 if it already had damage w/SBR). In most cases there was nothing left to use (especially w/Russians).

WILD BILL
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Re: Alpha+.2

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:20 am

Caractacus wrote:Yeah, this is where game-play reasoning departs by too great a margin from the historical realities. I'll give it a miss myself.

Regarding Moscow's construction vs Leningrad - the Moscow space on the board probably includes quite a large land area as well as a large population, so I would still rate it greater than Leningrad. That said, both should probably be Majors. And India should be a Minor, but there you go - game-play trumps historicity in many areas in a game this size, it's just a question of degree...
I think that the Leningrad tt was given 2 IPCs because by the OOB rules if it were 3 IPCs Germany could upgrade it to a major. Game play would have suffered. Now in light of the Alpha change of no majors built on foreign tt's (or upgrades), Novgorod could have been a 3 IPC tt allowing the Russians to start w/major there. It would have been interesting, but it probably would have gotten minor status anyway. I can't see Russia spending the IPCs to upgrade it either, unless its late in the game and the Germans are backed up to Berlin. The Russians might do it just to build navy in the Baltic to amphib Berlin to rub it in just for fun.

edfactor
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Re: Alpha+.2

Post by edfactor » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:35 am

Cmdr Jennifer wrote:And yes, it makes historical sense, if Moscow is big enough for a major when Russia was so weak at the start of the war, then it is certainly strong enough for one under the vaunted German command! (Historically speaking, St. Petersburg should be the major complex in Russia, as it was the one Czar Peter created to be European-like. Game wise, it makes sense for Moscow, I grant.)
Lots of Russian military production occured in the Urals, I can easily see Moscow as a Minor but if their major should be anywhere it should be east of Moscow.

Tiberius
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Re: Alpha+.2

Post by Tiberius » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:43 am

London is captert by Axis, Soviet and USA are at war!
Axis have a big Proplem with this rule.

With this rule, UK dont (weak) defend England. So in the 1. Rund. They attack Italy and can bild a factory in africa (Agypt) and trops in S. Africa.

2. Rund Germay captert england and UK lost Income (ca. 30 IPC).
But Soviet ist at war and USA even.

Fazit
Normaly Axil lose the game! Ok the 2. rund is for UK hard, but Italy is normaly to weak to kill Uk in afica. Germany Troups ar not ready to attak the soviet. (Most Army are in france and the Luftwaffe are need to capture england,). Germay Lost the Trade and oil pact, And USA the sleeping Giant is no longer sleeping).

With this rule it was good to lose England in the 2. Rund. Thats Bad, When Germany dont attack england, England bild in Rund 3 only Infantry and Germany have no realy cance to capture England again to a price that Germany can pay.
The captert Income from UK 30, is to small to win the Game for Germany.

Have anyone a better taktic for this problem?
Last edited by Tiberius on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Elrood
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:26 pm

Re: Alpha+.2

Post by Elrood » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:30 am

Tiberius wrote:London is captert by Axis, Soviet and USA are at war!
Axis have a big Proplem with this rule.

With this rule, UK dont (weak) defend England. So in the 1. Rund. They attack Italy and can bild a factory in africa (Agypt) and trops in S. Africa.

2. Rund Germay captert england and UK lost Income (ca. 30 IPC).
But Soviet ist at war and USA even.

Fazit
Normaly Axil lose the game! Ok the 2. rund is for UK hard, but Italy is normaly to weak to kill italy in afica. Germany Troups ar not ready to attak the soviet. (Most Army are in france and the Luftwaffe are need to capture england,). Germay Lost the Trade and oil pact, And USA the sleeping Giant is no longer sleeping).

With this rule it was good to lose England in the 2. Rund. Thats Bad, When Germany dont attack england, England bild in Rund 3 only Infantry and Germany have no realy cance to capture England again to a price that Germany can pay.
The captert Income from UK 30, is to small to win the Game for Germany.

Have anyone a better taktic for this problem?
Are you sure it cannot work out when UK falls in Round 2? Uk shouldn't be too hard to defend. And denying the UK the 30 IPC it normally gets is worth a lot more than the one time 30 IPC bonus.

Germany should at least be in a good defense position on its east front at the end of round 2 and let Russia make its first move. Normally that cannot be that hard, since only a few Infantry should man the borders.

And Italy should still take its time and focus on its NOs. UK just having build a useless factory should help here also.

I would love to test that, but no UK player I know ever was so reckless to leave London undefended yet. :)

Tiberius
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:09 am

Re: Alpha+.2

Post by Tiberius » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:37 am

Yes, test it.
Soviet is only 1 Problem. USA are at war at Rund 2. Japan is normaly not ready to figth against the USA in Rund 2.
USA get many Bonus IPC when they was in war. Send USA trups against Germany (most Army on Bord + Bild in Rund 1 and 2), LAter bild 10 U-boots per rund against Japan.
USA Bonus in Wag are 15-25 IPC per rund,
Germany have 30 IPC for 1 Rund form UK + 5 IPC for London and - 5 IPC for lost Soviet Pact.
@Elrood play this taktic and tell me later how you can win with Soviat and USA in war at Rund 2.

Another questen:
Develop Weapens in Global Ruels where are there?

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