Make cruisers usable

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Imperious leader » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:57 pm

This is the same crap Mantlefan was doing back when he was saying "30-50% of a decade ago" instead of saying 7 years ago which is the proper way to write it out.

Or when he tried to argue against that in hit and run battles with adequate boosts the tank would fair better than a 2 attacking mech unit.
When do you ever see those kinds of naval battles? You don't. :?
I have seen 3 DD vs 2 CA in combat. To claim "you don't" is stupid. In fact its more common that both sides don't have lots of DD's to use as soakers. Usually you will have just one DD in order to deal with the SS, but they are not like infantry in global.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

Alsch91
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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Alsch91 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:59 pm

I don't think I understand your point. As far as improving the defense of a fleet, destroyers are, cost-wise, the superior choice.

On offense, sure, there are many things to consider, but purchasing many destroyers is very common, if is preparing for an attack on one's own fleet.

JayDavis
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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by JayDavis » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:13 pm

In a real game I don't see 3 DDs vs 2 CAs. Why? Because no one bothers to buy CAs. So unless someone starts with 2 of them and puts them together, I'm not going to see it.

You really have to be reaching to find the scenario where building a CA is worth it.

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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Imperious leader » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:01 pm

In a real game I don't see 3 DDs vs 2 CAs. Why? Because no one bothers to buy CAs. So unless someone starts with 2 of them and puts them together, I'm not going to see it.
Thats like saying unless I'm tired and in pajamas and in a bed after a long days work, I'm not going to sleep...

Just give the CA one special deal:

either they can ASW ( this can be bundled with a tech)

or if enemy planes are in battle each one rolled by the CA can be applied to a plane ( enemy choice). You can bundle the requirement with a suitable escort: either BB or a CV must be with each CA to get this benefit ( sort of a combat boost combo)
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

Caractacus
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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Caractacus » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:55 pm

Imperious leader wrote:
In a real game I don't see 3 DDs vs 2 CAs. Why? Because no one bothers to buy CAs. So unless someone starts with 2 of them and puts them together, I'm not going to see it.
Thats like saying unless I'm tired and in pajamas and in a bed after a long days work, I'm not going to sleep...
Well, I get your point, but of course, you WILL be in your pyjamas and in a bed after work at some point in every day (except when it's an A&A all-nighter...); whereas the Cruiser issue might well not happen in a game...
Imperious leader wrote:Just give the CA one special deal:

either they can ASW ( this can be bundled with a tech)

or if enemy planes are in battle each one rolled by the CA can be applied to a plane ( enemy choice). You can bundle the requirement with a suitable escort: either BB or a CV must be with each CA to get this benefit ( sort of a combat boost combo)
This last idea sounds nicer and a more subtle revision...

BTW, the restricted range for Amphibious Invasions has been doing nicely in the solo games I have tested over the last couple of weeks. I HATE the metal rafts that float off the coasts of various nations for turns (i.e. months or years), before suddenly striking...n I haven't enforced Landing Craft (although due to various expansions, I have them and have considered them), but I AM finding that the limited range for Amphibious Invasions is already making a difference to the game...
Caractacus.

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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Imperious leader » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Yea landing craft should be with ports and considered a land unit, naval units cant attack them. They should be the only types of units that can perform sea invasions and only within say 2 spaces of a port. They should be able to be built in any port and cost 5 IPC and carry the same cargo as a AP.

Transports should only move during NCM to ferry friendly land units and probably get a larger capacity ( either any two land units, or 2 infantry plus 1 non-infantry).

I guess a shortcut could be to remove the landing craft and just require transports to invade 2 spaces away from a port.\

Id rather have another unit to force players into buying a dedicated sea invasion unit. Its not fair that the Transport gets to be an everything type of unit. The current cost of transport makes a sea invasion too likely since you really don't need any preparation and invasions were a serious undertaking.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

sirkaos
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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by sirkaos » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:53 pm

I used to be MiGraine...
I think the cruiser price and bombardment should be left as is.
However, some extra oomph is needed to make me want to buy it.

subs have a special ability submerge first shot etc
destroyers have a special ability sink subs and cheap fodder
carriers have a special ability; carry planes and have two hits
battleships, 4 shot, have bombardment and two hits have a special ability

cruisers have a 3 shot and bombardment; not enough.

Cruisers are supposed to be the fleet scouts.
three movement without need for a naval base is my opinion.
I like the first shot hit against airplanes also.

I originally suggested (as Migraine) that some sort of ability similar to airplane scramble be given unengaged defensive cruisers against adjacent sea zones whether there is a battle there or not. If a cruiser engaged in such a battle in such a maneuver, it takes two hits and is immune to planes as it is considered a salvo island type night action. The two hits are due to surprise and night action, along with opposing plane immunity for one round makes throwing a cruiser in an adjacent defensive battle tempting. Giving the scrambling cruisers a "submerge" run away back to base damaged or undamaged after one round would be icing on the cake. Notice this is kinda of a zone of control ability for a cruiser in a port.
I am sure this has holes in concept; but it would make me buy cruisers.

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Re: Make cruisers usable

Post by Imperious leader » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:13 pm

Its a little abstract and unlike AA with that ZOC thing.

Also, note the preemptive 1 in addition to its normal 3 was deemed a bit strong, so my idea was altered to just when it rolls a ONE, a plane must be selected as a combat loss if available. This looks more clean to AA system, and latter it can be argued to give the Battleship this same ability against ships ( a ONE result can be targeted against any surface ship).

And yes keep the CA cost at 12 as is but add this AA idea.

Also, the carrier should take one hit in the same way as the battleship with no loss of capability except it cant launch planes in attack, but it can defend with them. I know it not very realistic but its more balanced. The carrier taking one hit is bankrupting the unit, you might as well not have a 2 hit carrier because taking a hit means it cant do anything more and that invalidates a 14 IPC unit and the investment of 2 planes.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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