Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Not to be confused with the 1st Edition This is a larger game... bigger map and more units. The game was released this past summer (2012)
This promises to be the core game and it will be around for many years to come.
Wittman
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Wittman » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:22 am

I have been able to play two games with the. New set up. (Both
Axis victories, with the fall of Moscow.) It is a refreshing change to have the UK still in the game after R2.
However, I believe that the Japanese need to be stripped of a capital ship. I think making the East Indian Battleship a Cruiser, would immensely help reduce its dominance over the Pacific and give the Allies a better chance on that side. I do realise that this might be too much with the other 5 suggested changes, but would keep them anyway.
I have heard of the Russian Bomber argument for some time, I am not a fan, I am afraid.
Thanks again for addressing the balancing problem. It has been fun to play some 42.

Black_Elk
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Black_Elk » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:00 am

Could you elaborate on why you are not a fan of the Russian bomber?

I've heard some people say this before, but haven't heard any arguments or explanations as to the reasoning. I guess if you just aren't into it, that's fair, but I was curious if there was some kind of major gameplay downside or breaker that I haven't encountered yet?

For me that solution was about creating a little more parity with other Allies on the team, since the red bomber seemed somehow more conspicuous by its absence. Like "why does everyone else have one, but not these guys? haha." In 1942 the Soviet AAD flew like 1,100 strategic bombing sorties against targets in Poland and Germany with their Pe-8s. Even if these were mainly for morale and propaganda purposes, it still gives some justification for the Russians having at least one of these units to play with if they wanted to attempt an SBR shot on Berlin. Afterwards the Soviet long range bomber force was re-focused primarily on logistical military targets (rather than civilian population centers), so again it seems like the bomber used mainly in a combat role would make sense. I just think that a strategic bomber is unlikely to ever be purchased in the course of regular play by the Soviets. They simply don't have enough money, and the requirements to develop consistent defense power to survive means that if anything they're going to buy a fighter rather than a bomber. So in all likelihood they'd only ever have the one they're given at the outset.

I could see what you're saying about the Japanese battleship in sz 37 becoming a Cruiser.

If the Egypt fighter survives, which it almost certainly would if Russia can kill the German Ukraine bomber, that would give the British an 85% chance to sink the Japanese fleet (cruiser instead of a battleship), with an average of 3 units remaining if they prevail.

I guess my only issue with this approach to weakening the IJN, is that it doesn't really follow from any major historical 1942 battles that I'm aware of. If anything the script should have the British running away from Japan during this period, (bouncing from Trincomalee, to Kenya or Madagascar), rather than crashing headlong into them for an opening round trade with like 100 total TUV involved. So it's not so much the idea of weakening the IJN for game balance (since I can see how that would be helpful), but the method of doing it via a sz 37 attack that seems a little suspect to me. But I do like the idea of somewhat less dominant Japan, so the Allies have more room to operate on the water.

Wittman
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Wittman » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:57 am

Hi Black Elk.
I think Japan can keep the Americans at bay, with very little Naval purchases, whilst rampaging through Asia. The US is too weak throughout the game. Having one fewer ship helps the Pacific balance.

Thank you for your historical argument for the Bomber. I was unaware of that. However, Russia did not have a big SBR campaign. That is why I am averse to its having a Bomber (and happy fir Germany to lose its one too).
My eyes are.not great and I am not a good typist, so please do not think my short answer is from rudeness.

love.producer
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by love.producer » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:02 pm

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and I made this account only to ask:

1. Is there any link to the most updated balancing changes by Larry anywhere?

2. Will bidding still take place prior to the balancing changes or not?

3. If money is not a problem (I'm not saying I'm excessively wealthy, just a big fan of A&A) is there any way
one could order a new rulebook with all these changes implemented.
I'm talking of course about honolulu being a victory city and axis starting with 41 IPC's not 40 or whatever was printed on the original.

Thanks in advance!

Much love from Sweden.

innohub
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by innohub » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:00 am

Hey,

1. This thread is about the latest proposed balancing changes by Larry. I am not sure if this is perfectly balanced, but it seems to narrow down the gap between Axis and Allies. IMHO, the original setup does have Axis advantage, but with a bid from 6 to 15 I would say it can be fairly balanced. For beginner, however, Axis would look dominantly strong. It takes time to figure out how to play Allies.

2. I think Bid can still apply, depending on the skill levels of players.
3. You could read a PDF version for free. Search 1942 2nd edition and you will find it.

Have fun! 42 2nd is great.

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GSmorey
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by GSmorey » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:46 am

Gents,

OK, sorry for the delay in responding regarding the results from ORIGINS 1942 2nd. Ed. Tourney.

We did use the new set up and come to find out the bids are much lower (they were in the range from 0 (no bid) to up to 12.) Now in most cases, the Axis are still winning, but we did have a few Allies winners (2) as well in the tournament and I saw many UK/Atlantic fleets on the board at any given time during the game.

It appeared that most of the games were played to between 4-7 rounds. We had 1 surrender before the time expired.

I believe the changes are headed in the right direction and I will apply the same at GEN CON and see what the numbers their provided.
Gregory J. Smorey – EO/GM
SmoreySwamp: Axis & Allies Event Organizer/GM: GEN CON, ORIGINS, Spring Gathering
Web: headlesshorseman2.com

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.

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GSmorey
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by GSmorey » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:57 am

love.producer wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:02 pm

1. Is there any link to the most updated balancing changes by Larry anywhere?

2. Will bidding still take place prior to the balancing changes or not?

3. If money is not a problem (I'm not saying I'm excessively wealthy, just a big fan of A&A) is there any way
one could order a new rulebook with all these changes implemented.
I'm talking of course about honolulu being a victory city and axis starting with 41 IPC's not 40 or whatever was printed on the original.

Thanks in advance!

Much love from Sweden.
1. Best of my Knowledge, on my website since these are tournament rule changes only at this time and here on this forum.

http://smo63.fatcow.com/pdf/19422ndEdRules2017new.pdf

2. yes, bidding will always still take place. Bidding has always been used to determine who plays what side in a tournament setting.

3. Not sure about that. These are all tournament rules changes and are not part of the OOB rules. These set-up changes were based on part of several years of tournament play were there was extensive information showing that it was nearly impossible to win with the Allies under the given conditions including a bid.

And not sure WotC will be reprinting 1942 2nd Ed. rules with these changes? But then again, I had no idea that AA50 was getting reprinted either, so who am I to say :shock:
Gregory J. Smorey – EO/GM
SmoreySwamp: Axis & Allies Event Organizer/GM: GEN CON, ORIGINS, Spring Gathering
Web: headlesshorseman2.com

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.

twmattox
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Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by twmattox » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:04 pm

After playing the GenCon tournament, I have mixed feelings.

My only negative comment regarding this set-up is the placement of the German bomber in the Ukraine. It doesn't make sense from a German placement standpoint. The only thing it serves (as far as I can tell) is as bait to ensure a Russian attack at the Ukraine. All of the games I paid attention to the Germans lost the bomber before using it...

Aside from that, this was the most exciting game I had played in a long time. Allies were a real challenge. Bids were quite low and within reason. All in all, I love the set-up. However, would prefer a way to retain the German bomber and possibly sacrifice a different piece.

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