Balance Issues in 1942.2

Not to be confused with the 1st Edition This is a larger game... bigger map and more units. The game was released this past summer (2012)
This promises to be the core game and it will be around for many years to come.
TheoMav
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by TheoMav » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:20 am

Hello there!
You write:
"in every A&A game I've ever played, but especially in AA50, Japanese players consistently crush towards Moscow. Has nothing to do with how many spaces are in China (not enough to stall anything, at least in 41 for AA50, and again in 1942.2) or whether or not India has a starting factory (an even stronger target in 1942.2 than the same territory with no factory in AA50, since UK doesn't have the money to stack it early enough in 42.2), either way I still see Japan do the same thing it does in all A&A games since Classic, e.g. center crush. They might not necessarily crush Moscow along the northern route, they might push middle or south, but always with the same ultimate goal of linking with Germany at the center. Japan has every strategic incentive to do this, and virtually nothing to discourage them from doing so"

You have many valid points.
I agree with all you say.
I have been playing A&A since 1993 & have noticed that most(not all) players of Japan do this.
Why?
Because the Americans(Allies!) let them!
If they were threatened from the Pacific they would need to face it, therefore not concentrating their attacks on the USSR.
In AA50 & AA1942.2 the USA should try concentrating most(not all) of its forces & production against Japan. Two ways of doing this are either building up your forces in the Pacific to fight them (Japan then has to divert IPC's here rather than using them on USSR) or using Alaska as a bridge to ship units to Soviet soil, thereby diverting attacking pieces to attack US defending pieces(Carriers & inf & ftrs!) Japan must counter this immediately or else the US gets too strong there! With both tactics existing ftrs should be flown onto Soviet key territories(Soviet infantry supporting US ftrs of course!) via the British by building a British carrier which the Americans can fly two fighters in two turns onto Moscow. Think about that for a minute. The US Ftrs land on British carriersbuilt on first UK turn, then fly to Moscow(or whichever spot you choose)next turn. Initial British ftrs should already be on Archangel! You could have 5 to 7 Ftrs in USSR in about three turns. USSR then tries to build mainly inf with an art. for a key counter attack to push back Germany or Japan for a turn. You should then use your current US production to build up ftrs & navy to tackle Japan. Start shipping initial US land units to deploy in the support of the USSR through the areas I mentioned.
I am sorry but it is difficult for me to write all this without showing you the board & physically poiting out these moves. It requires alot of thinking & forward planning. With most Japanese players, they do not have a counterplan to this. They are so used to the centre crush tactic they will leave themselves weak in key areas.
With the newer A&A's it is worth a try! I have done it & caught the Japs unaware which led to fumbling & mistakes!
Keep in mind that the tanks cost 5ipc & the inf 3ipc. With 24 ipc's you can buy 8 inf compared to 4 tanks(+4ipc change) with the same money. With ftr support the USSR can at least hold on until the Allied economic power builds up to overcome them.
I reckon its worth a try?
BUT! :D
Dont forget one important & lovely thing in this game!
Those lovely dice! :wink:
They can be the great equaliser! For either side!
Remember what Napoleon said when asked about whether he wanted a good/brave General or a Lucky one: He answered: Give me a lucky General any day!

Kind regards,

Theo.

P.S I have & play all versions of A&A but am really into the WWI at the moment.

tyto_alba
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by tyto_alba » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:34 pm

i played the game three times and each time the Axis won without effort. Germany sinks the allied fleet, builds a lot of tanks and a few infantry and bulldozers over Russia. Game ends in turn three.
i read somewhere Germany's starting income exceeds the total IPC-worth of their territories. i'll have to look into this. also i plan on giving West Russia to Russia including it's units. hopefully this makes the game more fair and more fun.
i also recommend using the classic rules regarding industrial complex bombing, transports and battleships. no need to fix what isn't broken.

Realsteiner
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by Realsteiner » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:51 pm

No Question the Game is very very unbalanced at the Moment.
The Problem is that it is a strategic Loss the allies cannot counter if jap and ger focus on the right spots and places and go russia first. Many Allied Powers have been cuted down. No fast Reinforce for the Russian is possible.
The German has so many ICS, he can cope with the russian and build a big defence against the Allies.

My Guess: At least a 24+ Bit for the Allies or i win the Game w. the Axis.

Very seasoned player.

ChristophfromGermany
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Location: Munich / Germany

Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by ChristophfromGermany » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:14 am

Recently I had the opportunity for a Face to Face game with my gaming buddy and for the first time we turned from the 1941 game to 1942 SE. We used both optional rules - Turkey kept the entry to the Black Sea closed for shipping and Fighter Escorts and Defense was possible, but two fighters in Germany kept the Allies from strategic bombing. The only setup change was an additional bomber for the USSR - just as Black Elk had suggested. Thanks for that!

What can I say? This edition is awesome and even though both sides had some extreme bad luck with the dice at certain battles, we kept going in a very tight game and after 7.5 hours it was still a stalemate. I played the Axis and had a very bad start with my first battles - only the attacks against the Royal Navy and the US transports succeeded fairly well. My opponent used the US income to fight against Japan while Britain used two thirds of its income against Germany and Russia of course everything, thus both Axis powers were outproduced right from the beginning. After the first two rounds I thought I had to quit, having lost the defense of Ukraine, the attack on Egypt and the sea battle in SZ 37 (japanese carrier and battleship) without hitting much of the enemy forces in the first round. Thus I did not attack Pearl Harbour and even though I conquered China quickly, I couldn't progress against India, because the US bought a carrier fleet (1 carrier, 2 fighters and 1 destroyer = 42 IPC) in the first turn and threatened both Japan and the Philippines in round 3. But then I could turn the tide - including some lucky rolls with Japan against a superior US fleet.

I think with the additional bomber for Russia the game is fairly balanced - a better start with Germany would have forced Russia to play a bit more defensively, but even then flying the UK fighters to Russia will help a lot to keep Germany at bay. If the US focus their power on Japan, it will be very hard or nearly impossible for Japan to turn their eyes on Moscow. I had to buy several subs instead to have some cannon fodder for the sea battles. I am really looking forward to our next game, then I will play the Allies. It is a challenge playing either side and that is what I love about Axis & Allies.
ChristophfromGermany

No decent man can prefer war to peace, because at peace-time the sons burry their father while at war, the father burries his sons. (Herodot)

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GSmorey
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by GSmorey » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:32 am

I am reopening this topic because I believe there needs to be a re-visiting of the unbalance of the game. And looking back through the thread on the this topic, I believe that we, first need to establish apples to apples regarding which game we are talking about and how it is being played, meaning in what format (online, ftf, etc?) I believe 1941 even came up in one of the responses.

So, from my standpoint and my only concern is regarding FTF play and more specifically FTF tournament play. If someone wants to play a casual game, then, anything is game. I don't think asking to fix something that can be fix on your own should be part of this conversation. But when it comes to overall standard tournament play. Something needs to be at least considered...
Gregory J. Smorey – EO/GM
SmoreySwamp: Axis & Allies Event Organizer/GM: GEN CON, ORIGINS, Spring Gathering
Web: headlesshorseman2.com

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.

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GSmorey
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by GSmorey » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:42 am

oztea wrote:I really dislike bidding, and think the allies are really behind in the opening setup.
Are we speaking of in a game in general or does this include tournament play?
Gregory J. Smorey – EO/GM
SmoreySwamp: Axis & Allies Event Organizer/GM: GEN CON, ORIGINS, Spring Gathering
Web: headlesshorseman2.com

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.

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nexus73
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Re: Balance Issues in 1942.2

Post by nexus73 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:10 am

Based on thousands of games played online, it appears to be for the original A&A game made into the CD-ROM one in 1998, that bidding systems work along with having multiple formats for playing the game. The best one IMO was Anzio with 8 IPC's for the Axis. Larry's first game came so close to being balanced! Back in the early 80's the idea of beta testers linked together in an online community did not exist, so to take one's shot as Larry did in game design and be within a few small adjustments for true balance counts as a bullseye in the game design department for that era.

As games change in some form, rebalancing is needed. Magic: The Gathering had the DCI as their organization to study tournament play and make fast corrections when a new card set unbalanced the gameplay. Once again, this was began at a time when the net barely existed during the middle 90's but tournament play was so plentiful that assembling sufficient information to balance a game was possible.

It takes a lot of gameplay by a wide variety of individuals to sort out the loopholes, strategies and such to enough of an extent that a genuinely effective rebalancing can take place. A&A online play is not around these days like it used to be so there went a huge volume of gameplay to work with. Magic continues to be the most popular CCG so plenty of tournament play provides DCI information to keep the game balanced. The latest A&A games released over the last several years are not played online in a high volume nor is there a tournament scene for the game to generate data. Larry kept adding more features and different maps, some truly humongous, to A&A. No doubt he did his beta testing but it was not enough to bring "balance to the Force" unfortunately. Some day I hope to see the A&A online play return to the level it once had, combined with the newer games being made available, so a community of gamers can puzzle out the balancing act just as they did with the 1998 CD-ROM game, which turned out to have an amazing depth of play.

Then with all that info in hand, see what Larry could do with a final generation of A&A design. Maybe it flops, maybe it hits the sweet spot. Maybe the first one was truly the best!

Rick
Bad dice happen. Blame the Russians...LOL!

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