Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Not to be confused with the 1st Edition This is a larger game... bigger map and more units. The game was released this past summer (2012)
This promises to be the core game and it will be around for many years to come.
BushidoBlitz
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:34 am

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by BushidoBlitz » Thu May 04, 2017 1:50 pm

Larry, Like the suggestions, really limits the havoc G1 can render on the Atlantic. Not sure I like the German bomber vulnerable to R1 attack on Ukraine, but certainly makes it unavailable to attack SZ7 on turn 1.

I'm testing your revised setup solo via Triple A with 0 bid, currently on round 3 of 6 or 7.

Thanks,

Jeff

Black_Elk
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Black_Elk » Sun May 07, 2017 12:01 pm

After my first game with my buddy Tony using this new set up, and a couple dozen openers simulated on the machine, my impression is that the German bomber location makes the Ukraine battle pretty do or die for the Allies. Maybe Jeff was thinking the same? OOB there is some flexibility to try for Belo or Baltic as an alternative, or to strafe Ukraine, but with the German Bomber as a target I'm going all in every time to take Ukraine. Everything in range (3 tanks) to Ukraine and all the rest to the W. Russia fight.

This puts a lot down to the Russian opener, even moreso than OOB. If given a bid I would almost certainly use it to ice that battle. Whether or not this is desirable for tournament play it's hard to say, (I can imagine some grumbling from the Allied player if the Germans roll well on defense) but it might make for a faster resolution, though perhaps an earlier and somewhat less satisfying resolution if things go well for G haha.

For the Ukraine battle...
Russia: 3 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 2 fighters vs
Germany: 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 bomber

90% odds to the attacker
With an average of 4 units remaining.
Average TUV swing of 18 ipcs, in >2.5 combat rounds.

A single extra hitpoint for the Soviets takes this up to >95% odds to the attacker, with an average of 5 units remaining. Average TUV swing >22+ ipcs, in <2.5 combat rounds. So it's a pretty compelling battle for the bid.

For the West Russia battle...
Russia: 9 inf, 2 art, 1 tank vs
Germany: 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tank

100% odds to the attacker
With an average of 9 units remaining. Average TUV swing of 10 ipcs, in 2 combat rounds.

The West Russia battle is extremely narrow, where the difference of just a few casualties either direction can have a major impact on the game. The Soviets win solidly on average. But averages are just averages, and G has a lot of attack power at the ready. It's entirely possible for the Russians to dud out, or for Germany to roll hot on defense, which could easily turn those average results on their head. In which case the Allies are pretty bummed right out the gate.

The issue as I see it is that any Russian units committed to the Ukraine attack are marching straight into a deadzone, and are likely to die immediately on G1 counter-attack. So if Ukraine is truly critical, you're looking at like half the Soviet heavy hitters made vulnerable right away. There's not much you can do to pad this as Allies, (even with a standard bid, the usual placement restrictions are such that it's hard to get enough hitpoints into Ukraine to deter a G1 counter offensive) so it pretty much all comes down to those initial dice rolls, and a cascading trade the following round.

I think it's definitely worth considering whether the Russians should get something more to work with for long term attack power. I favor another air unit myself (Russian Bomber is my preference, though a 3rd fighter could also be interesting.) But failing that I think any additional hitpoints for the Russians would be welcome. Even if the units are unavailable for R1 attacks, just having them to bolster the Russian defense on G2/G3 would be nice. Vologda is currently empty of starting units, which might make it a good location, if any new Russian units are added.

Just something to think about. Otherwise though the Atlantic is looking a lot more interesting.

User avatar
Krieghund
Posts: 2662
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:18 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Krieghund » Sun May 07, 2017 5:51 pm

I think it may turn out that in the long run it's better to pass up the "opportunity" to take out the German bomber on R1.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

innohub
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by innohub » Mon May 08, 2017 11:21 am

I share the same feeling as Black _Elk too. I just started a new game with an online buddy. It seems the presence of both bomber and fighter in Ukraine makes this a highly possible spot for first R1 attack, but at the same time the game is pretty much over should R1 mission fails to capture this - they can't retreat anyway because the west Russia would be crushed in no time. This makes Russia option on R1 fairly restricted and limited.

I am still playing the game and get some good UK navy on R1 that is ready to take action on R2. WIll report after the game.

squidburns
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by squidburns » Tue May 09, 2017 11:00 am

Latest game on Sunday May 7th 2017:

Went a solid 3 hours with no checkmate as of yet. Game had to be postponed to be completed due to wives/girlfriends.

Germany has all of Africa, but the UK has been a thorn on the coast. Pacific is thinned out and East Russia is not under Japanese control.

Not sure when the game will conclude, but the mod has allowed the Allies have more of a chance with no bid.

We'll see that the conclusion is.

**update** Allies won by concession in the 7th round.

Thanks,
_s

innohub
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by innohub » Tue May 09, 2017 12:49 pm

I tend to agree what Black_Elk felt.. The attack to Ukraine is a high award/risk move As long as dice go against Russia it's basically an instant win to Axis, which I feel a little too much for an opener. It would be nice to give Russia a bit more option (and that's why I like Black_Elk's addition of bomber because it adds more variety to Russia opening and strategy) so that the opening becomes less rigid.

User avatar
Larry
Posts: 3081
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:44 am

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by Larry » Wed May 10, 2017 10:24 am

Comments noted.
This new tournament setup proposal seems to be on the right track. Am I wrong?
The placement of the G bomber in Ukr is not sacrosanct (as nothing is). I'd prefer avoiding adding any new offsetting Russian units... But, when it comes to an additional Russian air unit - I've always been concerned that they might be under represented in the initial Russian setup. So the fingers are pointing in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. What we have to be careful of is the eternal problem of: One new balancing adjustment begets an opposing new balancing adjustment. Such efforts often takes on a feeling of like standing in quicksand - in not too much time you find yourself sucked in and over your head.

User avatar
GSmorey
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:04 pm
Location: Alexandria, KY
Contact:

Re: Balance Issues 1942 2nd Ed. Re-Visited

Post by GSmorey » Wed May 10, 2017 11:46 am

Larry wrote:Comments noted.
This new tournament setup proposal seems to be on the right track. Am I wrong?
The placement of the G bomber in Ukr is not sacrosanct (as nothing is). I'd prefer avoiding adding any new offsetting Russian units...
Larry, you are correct, I believe it is on the right track! You are not wrong as I have found to be the case in all things AA :idea:

As for the Russian Bomber, I am in agreement with you. I believe that is a unit that is not going to cause a major change in our thoughts on setup, nor should it IMO...well at least not yet anyhow...

More to come...
Gregory J. Smorey – EO/GM
SmoreySwamp: Axis & Allies Event Organizer/GM: GEN CON, ORIGINS, Spring Gathering
Web: headlesshorseman2.com

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest