Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Breaking away from the Second World War and paying a visit and tribute to the First World War. Coming this March, 2013
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Chacmool
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:52 am

Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by Chacmool » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:02 pm

This is my first posting after I registerd here so I hope you don`t mind that its an complaint. I have a problem with the USW:
In all AA1914 we played with the official rules, no Germany player did ever declare an USW because this strategy is just too weak. Why would anyone risk to bring the mighty USA earlier than turn 4 into the war for the loss of 1-2 GB/US-IPCs?

My suggestion to pimp USW up is:
Throw a dice for every german sub in SZ 2,7,8 and the highest result is the IPC Britain/USA loses in that Round! It is a guaranteed 1 (and max. 6) IPC loss, IF the subs survive the attacks of french, british, american and even italian warships which is not so sure at all since the navy of the Allies is very powerful represented in the game :-) .. What do You think about it?

Here´s my first-post-praising: It is an awesome game, I like it much more than the other A&As. Only problem is that I spend too much of my freetime with it ;-)
Thank you Larry Harris, Kevin Chapman and all developers for Axis&Allies1914!
Michael from Germany
"Books and bullets have their own destinies"

Ernst Jünger

turner
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by turner » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 pm

I am in agreement. Unrestricted Submarine Warfare was very effective in WWI, but in this game it is not. I don't know what would be the most effective way to represent this.

You could have subs operate like bombers in other games. Roll one die for each of the subs in the USW sea zones. They cause that many ipc damage to the U.S. and or U.K. player to be divided between them as they chose.

VonLettowVorbeck1914
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by VonLettowVorbeck1914 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:32 am

Yes, it's effectively without utility for Germany. It's too weak to actually buy subs to do it, too weak to make Germany consider ever doing it before the US is at war, and if Germany has enough ships for subs to actually survive out there after the USA has entered, the war on land is already lost for Germany.

I'm not sure if it was ever intended to have any real effect; it just adds some neat historical flavor.

I have declared it, but only after the US has entered and after all my subs are either sunk or defending Kiel.

KimRYoung
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by KimRYoung » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:39 am

We pretty much ignore this rule since it is to weak to be of any value for the Germans prior to the US coming in, and really buying and sending out U-Boats to try to maybe knock off at most a point or two is not cost effective.

If there was a greater return on this I could see the Germans opting for it, but for the most part this rule has no practical effect on the course of the game. Too bad because it should.

Kim

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Chacmool
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by Chacmool » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:39 am

turner wrote:I am in agreement. Unrestricted Submarine Warfare was very effective in WWI, but in this game it is not. I don't know what would be the most effective way to represent this.

You could have subs operate like bombers in other games. Roll one die for each of the subs in the USW sea zones. They cause that many ipc damage to the U.S. and or U.K. player to be divided between them as they chose.
I like your idea for USW that is similar to bombers in other games. After declared USW, Germany can "attack" the income of USA and GB in SZ 2,7,8 with its subs. They simply move in that zones and roll one dice for every sub. Result is the IPC damage which is divided between USA and GB. If its uneven (for example 7) GB has to take more damage (4) like they actual did in WW1.
"Books and bullets have their own destinies"

Ernst Jünger

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Larry
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by Larry » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:07 pm

Sounds like the rule should be changed.... :wink:

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Flashman
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by Flashman » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:30 pm

I would prefer a rule for sub locations to be hidden (written in secret) so that Allied ships crossing the Atlantic have to run the gauntlet and chance where the U-boats might be.

This is probably too radical for the game mechanics, but I've often thought it is the best way of representing the underwater menace in modern warfare.

Might also need the introduction of destroyers (only one submarine was ever sunk by a battleship).

The effect of abstract economic damage would have to be pretty huge to be worthwhile; nevertheless it is worth considering that in both World Wars the battle of the Atlantic is considered the nearest the Central Powers/Axis came to winning.

VonLettowVorbeck1914
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Re: Unrestricted Submarine Warfare

Post by VonLettowVorbeck1914 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Larry wrote:Sounds like the rule should be changed.... :wink:
Sounds good to me!

I don't see it being too powerful if each sub did an automatic 2 damage to both USA and Britain.

Germany can't really afford to go naval as it is, especially away from its mines, where the damage could be done.

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