Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

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Piper909
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Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Piper909 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:07 pm

1. Can the USA player really accumulate all his IPCs each turn until the USA enters the war and then spend them all in one huge build? Is this the correct intent of the rules?

2. If there can be no amphibious attack due to all attacking land forces being lost to mines or enemy artillery fire, do battleships still get to bombard?

3. Can Fighters attack in an amphibious invasion?

4. Transports must always carry at least one Infantry unit, no matter what else is being transported, is this correct?

5. When a sea zone is contested -- occupied by at least two hostile forces -- who is affected by mines?

6. Sea combat -- if the attacker breaks off an attack, does he withdraw one space or remain in place? I would think he could withdraw but some argue that he remains in place. But assuming an attacker breaks off combat because he's losing, this seems to consign the fleet to certain destruction on the enemy's next turn.

7. Submarine vulnerability is still very confusing to us. Can anyone specify clearly when they can submerge and when they are vulnerable to enemy action?

Wittman
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Wittman » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:06 pm

Hi Piper.
1. The US can spend its money each turn or like any other nation, save it up.
The game's intention is not that the US has to save if up until at war.
2. Not sure.
Krieghund will have to confirm, but I suspect no bombardment is allowed if all ground units are killed by artillery.
3. Again not sure.
We need Krieghund, but I don't see why not. They would have had to come from land though, not be on board a Transport.
4. Transports can carry any combination of two Ground or Air units. There does not have to be an Inf unit on each Transport. There just has to an Inf unit left in the territory at the turn's end. (There could be one already in the territory, for example.)
5. Mines only affect the enemy of the original controller of the territory where the SZ and minefield are, even if contested.
6. The naval units remain in the SZ. (Tough, I know.)
7. A Submarine submerges instead of rolling a die. (It could be killed before submerging, therefore.)

I wanted to answer your questions yesterday, but as you can see, I am not sure of two of the answers. I too, would like to know.
I am sure the others are correct.

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Krieghund
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Krieghund » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:17 am

1. Wittman is correct.

2. It depends. If the only attacking units were amphibious, there will be no battle because you have no units left, so they may not bombard. However, if units also entered the territory by land, there will still be a battle, so the battleships may bombard. The number of bombarding battleships is limited by the number of units that offloaded, not by the number that actually made it to shore.

3. Yes. Bear in mind that an amphibious assault is really a battle that begins with an amphibious landing. Fighters (and Tanks) will be offloaded in crates after the initial troops come ashore, but will participate in later stages of the battle (which are still represented in the opening round of combat).

4. Wittman is correct.

5. Wittman is correct. Note also that if the territory is controlled by an enemy of the original controlling power, the mine field is inactive.

6. Wittman is correct.

7. Wittman is correct. Subs may submerge instead of firing, but they don't submerge until the end of the combat round, so they may be hit while attempting to submerge.
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Wittman
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Wittman » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:32 pm

Thank you for the clarification on 2 and 3, Krieghund.

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Piper909
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Piper909 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:11 pm

Yes, thank you all for the thorough answers!

So there is no "first strike", sneak attack mechanism in this game for submarines?

Submarines seem much less useful than in the WWII A&A games, and I wonder if this is a play-balance mistake. My concern, apart from the notably sub-par components that WOTC has provided (or not provided) with the game, is that this game doesn't seem play-balanced at all. In my four games with experienced A&A players, there has yet to be a Central Powers victory. Granted that there have been some oddball die rolls at key times, but still, on average, I would expect to see the CPs come close to winning, at least sometime. But not yet. And only once has there been a Russian revolution and even then the Germans crumbled to the French before their vast armies tied up in the east could return to the other front (takes more turns than is ever going to be left in the game at that point). The Russian can amass a huge and invulnerable army on the first turn and just stand off any attacks by even all three CPs. The CPs are completely unable to contest the seas, esp. the Med., given the French, British, and Italian navies and they way naval combat works.. Africa is virtually impossible to reinforce by the CPs. So I wonder what it is we are doing wrong/right?

Wittman
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Wittman » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:39 pm

No first strike, no. Subs are unusually (for an A&A game) underpowered, possibly even useless, except as cannon fodder.

Most players find the CP impossible to win with. We find reducing the number of Allied ships the only way to begin to redress the balance. Downgrading a French Battleship to a Cruiser and eliminating a TT is a must. You could also make things more exciting by gifting Germany a Cruiser off Africa.

India should also not be allowed to build more than 4 units.

Using the Tournament rules for Political and Economic collapse also goes a long way to shortening the game and eliminating a few nations early on.

New, revised rules to help with balance are expected soon.

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Piper909
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Piper909 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:41 pm

These are useful points to ponder.

As I investigate what others are saying and suggesting, there are some things that stand out to me in terms of modifying play balance:

Switzerland: make this worth 2 IPCs, so as a neutral it raises 4 units. This makes it a little less of a pushover and might prevent it from being the primary battlefield it has become in every game I've played.

Submarines: restoring the first shot ability would go a long way to bringing some balance to the naval situation, and also bolster the historical bona fides. The IPC cost of submarine interdiction should also be raised, similarly.

Some form of three-space movement rate for unengaged land units would really help the ability of the CPs to shift forces between theatres in a more realistic fashion. They are badly hampered by success against Russia, in that it maroons all those units in the east, unable to get back into the fighting elsewhere.

And finally:
Is the minefield off Wales really justified or does this just make the Germans more bottled up than they should be?

And I'd like to see an optional rule for an Irish Republican rebellion. The Germans should be able to invest 3 IPcs during a build to foment for an Irish rebellion -- similar to the technology tables in A&A 50 AE. Having a submarine adjacent to Ireland also provides for this check, without having to pay the IPCs. Irish rebellion is also triggered by any German land unit landing in Ireland. If Ireland rebels, place one infantry figure in Ireland, under the control of the German player. At the start of each German turn that Ireland is controlled by Germany or contested, another Irish infantry figure is placed in Ireland, up to a maximum of four infantry units. No other kind of Irish units can be raised but there is no limit to the German units that can be in Ireland.

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Krieghund
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Re: Misc. rules questions: subs, fighters, mines, amphibious

Post by Krieghund » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:28 am

Wittman wrote:New, revised rules to help with balance are expected soon.
I wouldn't expect anything beyond the tournament rules anytime soon.
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