RTS: Job well done

ry2k
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Post by ry2k » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm

elbowmaster wrote:actually, most all AI isnt that great...so to pick on this game, really isnt that fair...afterall, larry did say it wasnt going to be an advanced board war game...
I agree, Larry did make it abundantly clear that this game was to be a Real Time Strategy.
elbowmaster wrote: like anything else, timing is everything, IMO, this game came out a little late, most of these types of games were ealier generations in the pc gaming industry...
The real time strategy genre is not past its prime by any means, with games like Axis & Allies: RTS, and Rome Total War, some would argue that the PC strategy genre is thriving.

Just my two cents, great RTS game Larry, keep up the good work.

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Post by Imperious leader » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:03 pm

Elbow and others are commenting on the turn based world war two mode that ACTUALLY has any slight representation of the Axis And Allies Game concept. And on that level the game is an ummittigated failure. Im sure the RTS thing is just great but thats not axis and allies. Thats just as you stated Total War: Rome, et al. I own Blitzkreig, Shogun, Sid Myers Gettysburg and love them too but comparing the RTS thing with the "axis and allies " concept isnt possible from our viewpoint.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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Post by Imperious leader » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:43 pm

In case larry hasnt noticed the 100% of the negative comments out 100% of the responses have only to do with the Turn based play which has any relation to any axis and allies game concept.
All the positive comments as larry will quickly admit are people who play the RTS game and like it probably because its nothing like axis and allies. Both can be facts and neither do detract from the hard work of 2.5 years from the creative genius of timegate studios. On that we all can conclude. The real question remains as to why this game was made and clearly rejects the axis and allies concept and secondly why did larry have anything to do with it??
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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Post by elbowmaster » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:54 pm

Imperious leader wrote:Elbow and others are commenting...
um, we dont have the game...so for us to comment on it, other than small interjections wouldnt be fair...

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Post by Imperious leader » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:12 pm

was refering to this:

elbowmaster wrote:
actually, most all AI isnt that great...so to pick on this game, really isnt that fair...afterall, larry did say it wasnt going to be an advanced board war game...
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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Post by AxisRoll » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:21 pm

I like the RTS mode, there are a lot of positives, but not having naval battles and Air Wars take away from what it could have been.
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Give Enhanced a try, It takes LHTR 2.0 to a higher level.

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What we have he'ah is a failhure to communicate . . .

Post by Andre Bolkonsky » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:51 pm

I think AtlanticWall is using the game as an AnA engine. Nothing wrong with that, AnA has come in a variety of formulas over the years. The strategic level is just another recap of that established formula. . .

But that is just the window dressing of this game. Competing against the game at the strategic level, and allowing the computer to "decide" each battle in each theatre each round?

I can't imagine the AI at the strategic level to be brilliant, to be honest. Hence, the very limited number of armies/techs which can be built; the absence of Fleet Groups prowling the Pacific/etc.etc ad naseum. You are focusing on what is missing, not what is before your eyes.

AnA:RTS. AnA is the backdrop of an RTS engine designed to create credible combat simulations at the theatre-level. You are not Hitler or Stalin; you are Rommel or Zhukov; you do not command the general staff to roll your dice for you anymore, you step into the dice. You command the army group of your choice with old gaming buddies over a beer in the comfort of your own home. User-friendly, engaging, entertaining, wargame; THAT is the truly similarity to old-school Axis and Allies.

The strategic level frames the RTS in an historical context; the RTS is the brush with which you paint the battle's outcome.

Give the game creators credit here. They needed a good frame to paint a strategic overview of WWII; Axis and Allies was originally designed to be a user-friendly "The Third Reich". "Third Reich" was a brilliant game by Avalon Hill, but its rulebook was so complex it was taught as a graduate level course at several universities.

Same thing here, the designers borrow a formula that not only works, it is universally understood by most gamers worldwide. I do not find it odd that the individual I have probably played more Axis and Allies games allied with lives in Holland, while I live in Texas. I think that's the beauty of the design.

Play the RTS, give us a gambit for building Armor, or a new infantry tactic. You teach me how to bull rush this game's AI every time, and then you'll have a credible argument.

But, please, do not berate a game for not being something it ever wanted to be.

Because, like I said; job well done.
Last edited by Andre Bolkonsky on Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
War is but an extension of politics, by other means.

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Post by Imperious leader » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:19 am

Andre you too are missing the point.. All of the bagging on this product is stemming from the Turn based "world War II " mode that has no AI that has any competence on any level and to any player. I beat it in 7 turns on hardest mode. It does not have any air or naval units. And its a horrible gift to anyone who had any hope that it would relive the glory of the last Hasblo game. It fails on all these levels. Again NOBODY has made any comment regarding the mode thats RTS with is not axis and allies in the slightest. Im sure it succeeds on that level. BTW i just sold my copy on ebay and only lost 13.00 from what i paid. Hopefully someone who like command and conquer will enjoy it.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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