"Multinational Attack"

Here are the Tournment Rules for Revised Axis & Allies
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Re: Random thoughts

Post by BlackWatch » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:18 pm

Craig A Yope wrote:I have started to go over this in the LHTR.
Quote:
Step 1: Place Units on Battle Board
The battle board has two sides, labeled “Attacker” and “Defender”. Place all attacking units and defending units from a space on their respective sides, in the numbered columns that contain their names and silhouettes. The number in a unit’s column identifies that unit’s attack or defense value.
Even before this statement, the very first sentence of Phase 4: Conduct Combat ( pg. 8 ) is:

"In this phase, you resolve combat in each space that contains units from opposing sides."

I can see where this gives the impression that all the units in an embattled space are included in the combat.

BW- If we stick with the idea that you put forth of presenting a concept as soon as possible, maybe a better/clearer description of the separation of the individual powers is in order.

How about:

"In this phase, you resolve combat in each space that contains your units and units from the opposing side."

A minor point here, but if you look at the original statement, it would call for combat resolution between enemy units and units of your allies, even though it is your turn and not your ally's turn.



We could put a more information on pg. 3 under the "How the War is Won" and "The Combatants" section to better outline the interaction between allies and enemies.


Another place where I have come across an interesting thought is in the Set Up section on pg. 5. Under the topic "Spaces On The Game Board", just after the definitions for 'Friendly, Hostile, and Neutral', there is this sentence:

"Sea zones are either friendly (contain friendly units) or hostile (contain enemy units). They are never neutral. An unoccupied sea zone is friendly to everyone."

An interesting question is: What is a sea zone that has your naval units and/or your allies naval units in it but also has enemy submarines that have resurfaced in it called?

I would think that it would be hostile because the presence of the submarines causes you to move during Combat Movement among other things.

Maybe this was answered when we clarified the sub rules earlier.


Any seazone with units from opposing sides is a hostile seazone (it can be hostile before you get there, if both sides are already present, or you can make it hostile by moving in - the definition is not affected). I think this is pretty well covered already. BW



Just looking to clarify some thoughts so that it might be easier to rewrite the later areas that are sticking points.

Craig
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ESP?

Post by Craig A Yope » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:53 pm

You read my mind.
"In this phase, you resolve combat in each space that contains your units and units from the opposing side."
This is exactly what I wrote down on my working copy of the LHTR.

As for the hostile/friendly debate, that is what I thought but I couldn't remember if that is something we had already hashed out.

I will continue to write up all the areas that we feel are affected and post them.

Craig

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Post by Craig A Yope » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:20 pm

A minor point here, but if you look at the original statement, it would call for combat resolution between enemy units and units of your allies, even though it is your turn and not your ally's turn.
I understand. That is why I bought it up as a place where it should be changed to fall in line with the idea that a player uses the active powers' units and not any allied powers' units during a turn.

Here is the section on pg. 3 that I feel helps clarify that point.

THE COMBATANTS
One or more players take the side of the Axis, and one or more play the Allies. In a five player game, each player controls one world power. If fewer people play, some will control more than one power. If you control more than one power, keep those powers’ income and units separate. You can conduct operations for only one power at a time.

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Here they are. Fire away!

Post by Craig A Yope » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:44 pm

Here are the clarifications that I have come up with.

Look them over and comment on any/all of them.

Thanks.

Craig

*************************************************************
Proposed Clarifications-

Pg. 8- Phase 4: Conduct Combat

Original-
“In this phase, you resolve combat in each space that contains units from opposing sides.”

Proposed-
“In this phase, you resolve combat in each space that contains your units and units from the opposing side.”


Pg. 8- Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Combat Sequence, Step 1: Place Units on Battle Board

Original-
“The battle board has two sides, labeled “Attacker” and “Defender”. Place all attacking units and defending units from a space on their respective sides, in the numbered columns that contain their names and silhouettes. The number in a unit’s column identifies that unit’s attack or defense value.”

Proposed-
“The battle board has two sides, labeled “Attacker” and “Defender”. Place all your attacking units and all defending units from a space on their respective sides, in the numbered columns that contain their names and silhouettes. The number in a unit’s column identifies that unit’s attack or defense value. Place any cargo (whether your own pieces or an ally's) beside the piece that is carrying it. Remember that the cargo piece does not roll, nor can it take a hit, but is lost with the unit carrying it, if that unit is hit. If you are attacking into a sea zone that has your ally's units present, your ally's units are not brought onto the battle board, but remain out of play for this turn.”


Pg. 9- Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Combat Sequence, Step 2: Conduct Opening Fire, Submarines

Original-
“Both attacking and defending submarines fire in this step.”

Proposed-
“All attacking and defending submarines present on the battle board fire in this step.”


Pg. 9- Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Combat Sequence, Step 3: Remove Opening Fire Casualties, Destroyers and Submarine Casualties

Original-
“If a destroyer is present in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step.”

Proposed-
“If a destroyer is present on the battle board in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step.”


Pg. 12- Special Combats, Multinational Forces, Multinational Attack

Original-
“A multinational force cannot attack the same space together. Each attacking power moves and fires its own units on its own turn. A fighter may launch from an aircraft carrier owned by a friendly power, but the carrier may not move until its controller’s turn. Similarly, a carrier can carry a friendly fighter as cargo, but the fighter cannot participate in an attack involving that carrier. A land unit can assault a coastal territory from a friendly transport, but it is offloaded on it owner’s turn.”

Proposed-
“A multinational force cannot attack the same space together. Any units in a sea zone in which a battle occurs that belong to an ally of the attacker may not participate in the battle in any way. Such units may not be taken as losses in the sea combat and have no effect on defending submarines. Each attacking power moves and fires its own units on its own turn.

A fighter may launch from an aircraft carrier owned by a friendly power, but the carrier may not move until its controller’s turn. Similarly, a carrier can carry a friendly fighter as cargo, but the fighter cannot participate in an attack involving that carrier. A land unit can assault a coastal territory from a friendly transport, but it is offloaded on it owner’s turn.”


Pg. 20- Appendix I: Unit Profiles, Sea Units, Destroyers, Special Abilities, Submarine Disruption

Original-
“Also, enemy submarines cannot submerge while your destroyer is present.”

Proposed-
“Also, enemy submarines cannot submerge while your destroyer is present on the battle board.”


Pg. 21- Appendix I: Unit Profiles, Sea Units, Submarines, Special Abilities, Sneak Attack

Original-
“Casualties from this attack will be destroyed before they can return fire, unless an enemy destroyer is present.”

Proposed-
“Casualties from this attack will be destroyed before they can return fire, unless an enemy destroyer is present on the battle board.”


Pg. 21- Appendix I: Unit Profiles, Sea Units, Submarines, Special Abilities, Submerge

Original-
“The presence of an enemy destroyer in combat prevents a submarine from submerging but does not prevent an attacking submarine from retreating on the surface.”

Proposed-
“The presence of an enemy destroyer on the battle board prevents a submarine from submerging but does not prevent an attacking submarine from retreating on the surface.”

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Post by Krieghund » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:51 pm

This looks pretty clear to me. Good job, Craig!
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Post by BadSpeller » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:17 pm

Craig A Yope wrote:Here are the clarifications that I have come up with.

Pg. 9- Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Combat Sequence, Step 3: Remove Opening Fire Casualties, Destroyers and Submarine Casualties

Original-
“If a destroyer is present in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step.”

Proposed-
“If a destroyer is present on the battle board in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step.”
BadSpeller wrote: page 9 under DESTROYERS AND SUBMARINE CASUALTIES
quote "If a destroyer is present in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer's player skips this step."

recommend "If a destroyer is present in a combat on the battle board involving enemy submarines, the destroyer's player skips this step."
--------------------
BadSpeller
original ?

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Post by Craig A Yope » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:55 pm

BadSpeller-
When I say "Original", I am talking about the wording that is presently found in the LHTR v1.2 rule set.

I am not talking about the version that you put forth.

I did have your version handy while going over the pertinent passages.

Your posts were very good at picking out almost all the places that needed to be addressed.

Thanks for checking in.

Craig

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Post by BlackWatch » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:43 pm

It all looks good Craig except the following paragraph:

"A fighter may launch from an aircraft carrier owned by a friendly power, but the carrier may not move until its controller’s turn. Similarly, a carrier can carry a friendly fighter as cargo, but the fighter cannot participate in an attack involving that carrier. A land unit can assault a coastal territory from a friendly transport, but it is offloaded on it owner’s turn."

I would amend it as follows:

An attacking fighter may launch from an aircraft carrier owned by an ally , but the ally's carrier may not move until its controller’s turn. Similarly, an attacking carrier can carry an ally's fighter as cargo, but the ally's fighter cannot participate in an attack by that carrier. An attacking land unit can assault a coastal territory from an ally's transport, ONLY on the attacking land unit owner's turn.
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