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Wacht am Rhein (Watch on the Rhein) was the German code name for this counter offensive. I don't want to hear anybody complaining about the weather this winter unless you were in the Ardennes during the winter of 1944! I simply love playing this game. Check out the new combat system when you can.
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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:58 pm

You never actually finalized the answer to the question of whether or not a truck could exit the board with units/supplies from on-board and re-enter. (I believe you said "I can't make this official yet" the last time we discussed it.) As for option 1 vs option 2, you said "Comments noted", and I'm never really quite sure how to take that. Anyways...

I just think that option 2 is cleaner. It allows all the off-board movements to be done in the Reinforcement part of the phase, rather than keeping track of what's moved across both phases. As you said, if a truck can move off-board at the beginning of the phase, it probably will. For that reason, I see little use in allowing off-board movement during the Movement part of the phase. Generally, the only trucks moving during that part of the phase would be the ones stuck on the board by enemy ZoCs.

But, if you like option 1 better, that's OK. It's your game, after all! :)

(Sorry if I'm being a pain about this, but I just want to be sure it's right.)
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Larry
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Post by Larry » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:41 pm

Well you certainly are not being a pain… When you boil it all down based on my intentions and the way the rules are written, here are the governing rules on the topic.

Trucks that are on the board and can be moved off the board, in other words they have a clear unblocked road system to move along and/or are not already in an enemy ZOC, must be moved off the board during the time allocated for that kind of movement… and that time is at the beginning of phase 3 (before either player has taken their normal moves). Let’s call that special moment “move-trucks-off ” Now we have a name for it.

Any truck that is not moved off the board during the move-trucks-off moment has missed it’s opportunity to be moved the off board for that turn. Note: trucks along the edge of the board can be moved off the board during the move-trucks-off moment. There are a couple of restrictions and observations however.
- The truck must be in an edge hex that has a road that clearly extends off the board.
- A truck can be moved off this edge hex even if it presently is in an enemy ZOC.
- This same truck must be empty. It cannot have any cargo.

Later during the regular phase 3 movements all off board trucks (including newly arrived reinforcement trucks) can be moved back onto the game board. They cannot be moved onto the board and then moved off the board ( I’m not sure why someone would do that anyway).

On board trucks cannot be moved off board and then returned to the board. At no time can a truck move units off the board and then return them to the board.

Comments?

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Post by Krieghund » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:50 pm

Larry wrote:Well you certainly are not being a pain… When you boil it all down based on my intentions and the way the rules are written here are the governing rules on the topic.

Trucks that are on the board and can be moved off the board, in other words they have a clear unblocked road system to move along and/or are not already in an enemy ZOC, must be moved off the board during the time allocated for that kind of movement… and that time is at the beginning of phase 3 (before either player has taken their normal moves). Let’s call that special moment “move-trucks-off ” Now we have a name for it.
Must be moved off-board?
Larry wrote:Any truck that is not moved off the board during the move-trucks-off moment has missed it’s opportunity to move off board. Note: trucks along the edge of the board can be moved off the board during the move-trucks-off moment. There are a couple of restrictions and observations however.
- The truck must be in an edge hex that has a road that clearly extends off the board.
- A truck can be moved off this edge hex even if it presently is in an enemy ZOC.
- This same truck must be empty. It cannot have any cargo.
It will be empty, since it cannot be otherwise at the begining of Movement.
Larry wrote:Later during the regular phase 3 movements all off board trucks (including newly arrived reinforcement trucks) can be move onto the game board. They cannot be moved onto the board and then moved off the board ( I’m not sure why someone would do that anyway).
The only reason I can think of is that you want to move units from one point on the board to another, and no road goes there without going off-board for a bit or passing into enemy territory first.
Larry wrote:On board trucks cannot be moved off board and then returned to the board. At no time can a truck move units off the board and then return them to the board.
I have listed above the only reason you would want to.
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Post by Krieghund » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:20 am

Another question for you: Can you wantonly waste supplies, say by paying 2 supply counters to move a tank out of a hex, then blitz it right back in? This would be an easy way for the Allies to keep supplies from falling into German hands.
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Post by Krieghund » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:56 am

Concrete example of why you might want to move off-board and back on again:

The Germans have advanced to the hex west of Martelange. The Allies have one infantry SW of Bastogne, placing Martelange and the hex to the west in Allied ZoC. A road goes off to the south of this hex, so a German truck could exit the board there. However, it may not re-enter there, since German reinforcements must enter on the eastern map edge. Until the Allied infantry is cleared, these German units cannot be resupplied even if they are not actually cut off, despite a road entering the map there. The whole south edge of the board is particularly vulnerable to this, due to the layout of the roads.

Example 2:
The Germans have pushed surrounded Liege. A road goes off the map here, so the Allies can move reinforcements and supplies in from off-board. They would not, however, be able to pick up units in Huy and move them there by going north off the board, then south again back on the board into Liege.

These are just anomalies caused by the edge of the board. Trucks can move off-board and on-board there, but they can't move there from on-board. This actually has the potential to hurt the Germans worse than the Allies, since they are restricted to bringing units/supplies on-board on only the eastern map edge.

If you are OK with this, that's fine. I just want to make sure you're aware of it. These are, of course, just theoretical examples. They may or may not occur in actual games. Just playing Devil's Advocate.
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Post by Krieghund » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:47 pm

OK, assuming you're not buying my argument about why loaded trucks need to leave the board and come back, here is my revised text based on your latest parameters:
At the beginning of the Movement and Reinforcement phase, you may return any of your "free" Trucks that are on the board to your off-board area. Free Trucks are Trucks that either a) are not in an enemy zone of control (ZoC) and can trace a path on roads to a friendly edge of the board without passing through an enemy ZoC or enemy-controlled city, or b) are in a hex on a friendly edge of the board (even if that hex is in an enemy ZoC) with a road going off the board. This is the only time at which Trucks may leave the board.

During the Movement part of the phase, each Truck that remained on-board can drive all over the board (but not off it), staying on roads, until the Truck either enters or leaves an enemy ZoC, enters an enemy-controlled city, or decides to stop. As the Truck moves it can load up to a total of six supply tokens and/or activated units (Infantry and/or Artillery) that have not moved yet from the hexes it passes through, even if that hex is in an enemy ZoC. The Truck may not unload until its movement stops, at which point it unloads all of its cargo into the hex in which it stopped.

During the Reinforcement part of the phase, each off-board Truck (including this turn's reinforcement Trucks) may load up to its capacity of six supply tokens, Infantry units and/or Artillery units from the off-board area (including this turn's reinforcements from any of the charts). Each of these Trucks may then enter the board in any valid reinforcement entry hex (see page 21), regardless of the reinforcement chart from which they or their cargo came. Each Truck may then move exactly as in the Movement part of the phase, filling any remaining empty cargo spaces as it moves.

Supplies may only be moved by Truck. No supply tokens need to be paid to move either Trucks or supplies.
Does this cover it all?
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Post by Krieghund » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:05 pm

Here's another question. There is nothing in the rules concerning retreating that prevents you from retreating "forward". Assuming that no enemy ZoCs or terrain features prevent it, it looks like you can retreat across the front lines into enemy territory, even into an enemy-held city. Should this be legal?
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Post by Larry » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:40 pm

simply said.. you can "retreat forward". Be sure to observe the ZOC rules and other movement restrictions

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